If theoretically all Christians could agree that total unity was necessary, where would you start?


#1

I am currently studying to be ordained as an Old Catholic Deacon and eventually a Priest. I have been seeking after the truth of the bible and God’s Church ever since I was born again in a Baptist Church in 2002. I have ministered in several protestant churches and after a lot of really painful experiences set around church splits I began studying communion. It didn’t take long for me to find a website that taught me about the Eucharist and Eucharistic miracles, I have a link on my web site . Being an Engineer and physics heavy I was Catholic ever since. I especially have fallen in love with the Rosary and chaplets. I am ecumenically obsessed because I see people everyday who are hurt by the continually splitting churches. They are creating interstates to Hell, sorry but its true.

So from what I have read on this site there are some great saints and theologians here. Help me. If all of the churches had to sit down and work it out, where do you start. What would be the essentials? I would say the Apostle and Nicene Creeds, the Bible, The Authority of the Church, ie Holy Orders, and the forms of Baptism and Eucharist/ Communion. But that in itself is so large. Theorize with me. The answer to Christs prayer is out there.

Thank you all and pray for me through the Bleesed Virgin that I might do Her and Christ a faithful witness. May God the Father of our Lord Bless and keep you.

:signofcross:


#2

They would probably start by hammering out a basic “We all believe this, at the very least,” or what makes a Christian. Some modern version of the Apostle’s or Nicene Creed (seeing as that’s about the same reason they were made) to define what a Christian believed. After that, it’s hard to say. It would take some major admittance on the Protestant side of things to admit that they were wrong on some things, and that unity really is better than having split up bits and pieces of churches who can’t agree on anything else except Jesus.

Who knows? It would take a lot of work to even get theologians from both sides to even sit down with each other.


#3

I have often wondered why more churches aren’t using the creeds as statements of faith anyways. Then again they did help make me a Catholic, so maybe thats why.:confused:


#4

Technically, Protestant churches as I know are fine with the Apostle’s creed, making sure you use just ‘catholic’ (lowercase) and you mean just the Greek katholikos as ‘universal’ and nothing more. And as to communion of saints, they would simply take this to mean everybody in heaven (those who don’t believe in purgatory would assume Christians go straight to heaven).

So, it would probably take some added clauses around there for an accurate, single meaning to be agreed upon.

Hmm, maybe we could make a new ‘creed’ that Catholics and Protestants could agree upon here, making sure to not use ambiguous language? Maybe that’s too much of a jump…


#5

Actually I think it would be an interesting exercise of theology and faith. I have to get to bed for tonight, but I think we ought to put some thoughts together and see what is out there now, and how it could be used. In the context of ecumenicism. Any protestants wanting to way in? How about traditionalist RCs?


#6

I would begin with the Pope. Since that is where the unity is focused.

Every organization, every corporation, every government, has one supreme authority, the final decision maker, if it be the Supreme Court, the King or Queen, the Dictator. The Pope is that supreme authority for Christians on earth, The final decision maker in matters of Doctrine and Morality in the Church. That is where you have to start, everyone has to agree on that.


#7

So unity begins when Protestants become Roman Catholics. :smiley: What’s new?

Could unity begin when Rome admits it is wrong on some of its doctrinal stances? Like: transubstantiation, faith plus works salvation, its Mariology, purgatory, prayers to saints, its sacerdotal system, its infallible Magesterium.

If you had to begin with one, which goes first?


#8

But not with Protestants or the Eastern Orthodox. So you would have to begin with removing that office. Can you do it?

Every organization, every corporation, every government, has one supreme authority, the final decision maker, if it be the Supreme Court, the King or Queen, the Dictator. The Pope is that supreme authority for Christians on earth, The final decision maker in matters of Doctrine and Morality in the Church. That is where you have to start, everyone has to agree on that.

IOW, unity begins with all converting to RC’ism. When one accepts the supreme authority of the Roman Pontiff, is he not automatically accepting ALL that the Roman church teaches? A total conversion to RC’ism. There’s your answer for unity, right?’


#9

I think there is a good chance that the unity I am talking of could end with everyone accepting who the Roman Pontiff is in Christ, but it wont start there. I am looking for a discussion about a road map for the healing of the broken body. To honor Christs prayer in John’s Gospel. I understand that total unity requires the eventuality of unified theology, but it cant start there. So where do you suggest we begin? :thumbsup:


#10

Didn’t you know? They are non-negotiable.


#11

As I said I would begin with having everyone understand and accept the office and authority of the Pope, successor of Peter.


#12

You could start with the Creed. But you can’t get past “We Believe…” until everyone accepts the authority of the Pope and the Church.


#13

IOW–all prots must become catholics–right? IOW catholics have absolutely nothing to concede–right?


#14

RIGHT! You got it. You cannot concede the truth to attain unity.

As St. Augustine I believe said “The Truth does not care how many it convinces!”


#15

Hmm, maybe we could make a new ‘creed’ that Catholics and Protestants could agree upon here, making sure to not use ambiguous language? Maybe that’s too much of a jump…

Isn’t the Nicene, Apostles, and Athanasian Creed already kind of the definitions of what is an orthodox Christian? (with small “c” catholic)


#16

I agree which is why Im not catholic. I could never concede the truth for unity either.

The truth is the truth and I thank God He saved me and gave the Holy Spirit to discern truth from fiction.:smiley: AMEN!!!

So, honestly there wil be no unity:( Until Christ returns of course;)


#17

quote from last post by ALLFORHIM “…i thank God because He saved me…” my friend that is where you have a mistaken idea… you are not saved right now you are money under the mattress,when you get to the bank(heaven) then you can say you are saved.so that is where i would start with a defination of what salvation means.


#18

Why would you think that Christ’s prayer was not or has not been answered - or is not now being answered? Do you think the Father would not answer the Son’s prayer? Do you think that prayer was left for us to fulfill? His prayer was directed to the Father.John 17:20-21 "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as You, Father, {are} in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.In respect to true believers the Father has answered the Son’s prayer. I think you may be misinterpreting and misapplying it.

I understand that total unity requires the eventuality of unified theology, but it cant start there. So where do you suggest we begin? :thumbsup:

You’re talking about religious/theological conformity. That’s not at all what Christ was praying about.


#19

Where do you begin?

As Abraham Lincoln queried, which is the most important leg of a 3-legged stool?


#20

Channy,
As you can see, the sad fact is sinful humans by ourselves cannot even unify on where we can start unifying.:frowning:

I posted this prayer on another thread today.

Dear Heavenly Father,
In ancient times, you divided your people with language at the Tower of Babel, because we sinfully thought we could be equal to you. Because of our continuing sinfullness, language now separates us one from another in our understanding of what your one true faith teaches.
We, as members of your church here on earth are aware that we, through our sinfulness, are not united as Christ commanded.
We, therefore, ask your forgiveness and pray that you…:
…pour out your Holy Spirit upon your church that we may end our divisions
…protect us all from the evil one who delights in our division, and endeavors to pertetuate it
…blind us to human pride that causes us to think that each of us knows better than the other what you teach.
…open our minds and hearts to each other to hear your truth in each other, and
…use your power through our words to bring us to unity of understanding.

Hear our prayers, Heavenly Father, in Jesus’ name and for His sake.
Amen


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