If there are liturgical abuses at your parish are you bound, knowing it's wrong, to change?

I hope that’s clear. Just wanted to know, and if people agree, then ideally tips for raising with a friend. We both attended a parish, I stopped going because as I grew in knowledge, I became more and more aware of liturgical abuses and /or practises that I would rather not participate in or be a party to. So, I wondered, if we know it’s wrong, and we know they will do it, are we then sinning by attending such a parish (if there is an alternative) . The community aspect is very strong, so I can understand why some people are attracted to it, but surely reverence and our duty towards God is more important than meeting with friendly faces once a week? If we become aware that something is wrong, are we not obliged to then avoid it?

FWIW, i did for this reason change. I’m asking genuinely out of love concern for my friend. She and her family do seem loving and committed catholics and I’m concerned they are on a weekly basis experiencing abuses which are damaging and weaken the faith. Should I say anything or just mind my own business? I run it round my head and really don’t want to come across as superior or that I think I’m better than them.

“Liturgical abuse” is an accusation that is very freely thrown around on these forums. It would be easier to deal with your question if you told us what, exactly, you have witnessed that you judge to be a “liturgical abuse.”

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OK, I am not very learned, so I think some of these are and some are just things that I’m not comfortable about and don’t think are condusive to growing in holiness but generally the things that happen every week are:-
The biggest problem for me, at communion, people take the consecrated host then wander over to the chalice and dip into the precious blood, usually dripping all over,
Everyone being requested to review the Doxology (through Him, with Him, in Him…)
The priest often doesn’t give a homily, instead invited the congregation to share their thoughts on the reading (s),
Hand holding during the ‘Our Father’ is compulsory, if you try not to, someone will bat your arm and grab your hands anyway,
Divorced parishioners receive Communion,
Non catholics receive Communion,
The priest holds some questionable views, eg he loved the Lucifer series and recommended we watch it,
These are just the things that spring to mind, not an exhaustive list. Like I said, I am not well educated, and certainly no theologian, but these things don’t sit right with me and with conscience can no longer attend.

But as I said, if these things are explicitly wrong, and we know they are, are we then obliged to avoid, because otherwise we are participating in these things which are wrong. The friend is a Eucharistic Minister there, so directly involved in the Communion.

Please go to the Bishop ASAP. And please post a follow-up on what is happening.

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I really don’t think the bishop will be interested. Afaik he is totally OK with at least some of these. I’ve mentioned this in the past on this board. I have spoken to another priest who told me I shouldn’t worry about these, many much worse things go on… :confounded:
But I am meeting my friend and don’t know if or how I should speak to her.

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So I’m not over-reacting?

Sounds like a hooror movie based on time travel back to 1980.

As to your question: one cannot just “change” parishes, membership is determined based on the location of your residence. But one may attend whatever parish one desires. Not bound to.

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The first two items in your list are genuine abuses, but I wouldn’t stop going to Mass just because of that. Everything else is very minor. And remember that you’re not the communion police. It’s no business of yours who receives Holy Communion and who doesn’t.

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I never said to stop going to Mass, I said about changing parishes to one that doesn’t do these things. And yes, it would be a matter of just changing because this is a church for the international community not a normal diocesan parish, so no one there is in their ‘home parish’ so to speak. And tbh it doesn’t feel very minor to be forced to hold hands, to have my young daughter taught things that are just plain wrong. She has learnt that we all hold hands, that we all get to chip in with our pov, that we all say the Doxology. I don’t like having to whisper to her, that despite what the priest says, we should not be doing that. That’s why I changed. I don’t want to be the Communion police, a comment i found quite rude btw, I just want to go to Holy Mass, and pray with reverence without being hounded into doing things or witnessing things that I find upsetting or know to be wrong.
But no one has addressed the main point of my question. Should I voice my concerns to my friend?

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Very minor? Non-Catholics receiving communion
Asking the congregation to share thoughts on readings?

If I was the IP, I would not attend there. I lived through such things once in my life, I will do everything possible not to experience it again.

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I would definitely explain the concerns to your friend. It would be up to them as to what action to take.

FWIW - All of the reasons you listed would make me find another parish for mass. I agree with you. I also agree completely that you have a duty to your daughter to teach her correctly.

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I’m a litlte bit bothered by you just assuming the bishop doesn’t care if the Precious Blood is dripped on the floor regularly, assuming that is happening. . . . It’s important to make sure he knows. . . .

And . . . you want to go to another parish, go to one. . . .

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Do you mind me asking where (roughly) are you located? Is this parish an outlier or are other parishes in your diocese similuar? How long has the priest been there?

I’m in Munich (Germany) the church community is run by Jesuits. They have been there for i think at least 20 years. I joined about 10 years ago. Didn’t know any better, slowly learned more about my faith and then realized so many things were wrong. Tried to talk to the priest who basically said that I am negative and gave of bad vibes. More or less ignored me since then. I left over a year ago. Wandered in the German wilderness for a long time till I found a new spiritual home. Thank God. But unfortunately 2.5 of my 4 children have left the faith. :pensive:. This is what they grew up on, and worse.

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I feel for you. Just know that in most places of the world, these types of abuses are not as common. Things have improved drastically in the last 20 years. I was actually wondering if you were in Germany I elsewhere in northern Europe.

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Excuse me. I did not ask if it’s OK to go to another parish. I asked if and how I should discuss with my friend as I feel I ought to say something, but I don’t want her to think I am judging her or making myself superior to her. And I asked if, knowing abuses are taking place, we would be doing something actively wrong by continuing to attend, knowing we would be participating in the ‘wrongness’ as my friend is a Eucharistic Minister the, so she is directly involved.

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I’m not too sure you’re under any obligation to explain why you just stopped coming. If they ask, then tell.

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According to the site below there is a Latin Mass held daily at Damenstiftskirche St. Anna, Munchen (1, Damenstiftstraße, München, Germany, 80331) I would consider attending yourself and see if you feel happier. If so, I would invite your friend and family to a Mass there and see if they find it fulfilling. It may alleviate your concerns and enlighten your friends in the process.
https://www.latinmassdir.org/

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I left over a year ago. That’s not my question at all. See my previous post.

Oh, sorry. My mind somehow jumped between the posts and I got confused.

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