If there was no sin prior the Fall why would adam and eve disobey?

I’ve never read this book, but I have heard about the fall of satan and the great war in the heavens being referred to as a massive war between the “beings” and that a hypothetical planet between or near mars was where the beings existed before they fell to earth, or something like that! :slight_smile:

I totally agree with you on this point and I am quite glad you mentioned this. I have had several discussions on this forum over that and if you read the writings of several church doctors, they agree with this point unfortunately we live in a culture in which the idea that there is really no wrong and that tries to eliminate the differences between right or wrong so people fall into blaming the culture. To me is nothing but sugarcoating and lying to our own self. The problem with that is that we can lie to others and we can lie to our selves but we cannot lie to God

Adam and Eve indeed did not have tendency to sin. However they did have the capacity to make decisions and that is the part you are missing. They did have a different nature before the fall and within that nature sin and all its consequences were not present. But if you remember the difference when God created men was that he created similar to them, to him and angels (which is what differentiates us from animals) and within that is the ability to make decisions.

Note that angels also have this same capacity way before humans were created. Lucifer himself decides to separate himself from God and was expelled from heaven and the bible mentions too that many other angels decided to rebel against God and they all were expelled from heaven. Humans too were given this ability to make decisions. Note too that both Adam and Eve are warned by God as to this capacity “you can eat from everything in the garden but…do not eat from X” and Gid goes further and warns them “if you do it you will die”. So Adam and eve eating from the forbidden fruit was not the product is an inclination to sin. Their action was the product of a decision to disobey God. They knew they shouldn’t doit, despite that they thought they wwere better than God, actively decides to go against God and then our nature changed and inclination to sin was born.

And as Hoosier Daddy very well stated this applies to our current society. We still have the capacity to say yes or no to sin. The difference is after Adam and eve’s first sin we all suffered the consequences and death and all the negative consequences of sin entered the world. Maybe we have a lesser degree of culpability than Adam and Eve but we still have the ability to say no.

Starrsmother I think you are quite on the right track, but I think that you are using The word concupiescense in the wrong place. Your idea Is basically right and I agree pretty much with you but the concupiescense came after. This entire idea is pretty well explained by St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas (I am trying to re explain it to the best of my words) but given that you are right on the idea – and that the whilenthing is difficukt to explain in a samll space --I would say that you may want to read both saint Augustine and st Thomas A. To understand how the concupiesence part enters here. Again your basic idea is what they explain but they expand much more on the little details and expand on the concupiscence idea.

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