If we have the Holy Spirt in us

I have a very dumb question.

If we are in a state of grace and have the Holy Spirit in us, can we lose it if we sin? I’m thinking we will, but can’t find anything in Sacred Scripture to help me.

Thanks in Advance

First of all, we do not look in Sacred Scripture for information like this. The Bible is not a textbook.

There are several sources of information which are called catechisms. I personally prefer the Baltimore Catechism as I find that it is clear and concise. Others like the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is very thorough, but which has a somewhat different purpose from the Baltimore Catechisms–the CCC is supposed to be a sort of master catechism from which local catechisms are written.

Here is a copy of the highest level Baltimore Catechism–it is like a teacher’s manual in that it includes very thorough explanations on an adult level.

Secondly, wrt your question: yes, mortal sin removes sanctifying grace from our souls. And insofar as God is present in our souls when we are in a state of grace, He is not there present when we are in a state of mortal sin.

ETA: I used to have a teacher who said that the only dumb question is the one we didn’t ask. This was a good question!

We hide His word in our heart to keep us from sin…His word is a lamp for our feet and a light to our path…Where better place to look than words penned by godly men via the holy Spirit.

Hi,

well the Holy Spirit does not leave us… but when we sin mortally, we lose God’s grace, and have to come back through repentance/Confession :slight_smile:

God never leaves us, but we can leave Him. Hope that helps.

God bless

Scripture tells us that Christians who know God are dead to sin. Now I don’t know of any denominational church that does teach that truth, the Catholic Church included. Now to say that a church is the Church of God it should teach the truth.

(1 Corinthians 3:1-3) “Brothers, I myself was unable to speak to you as people of the Spirit; I treated you as sensual men, still infants in Christ. What I fed you with was milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it; and indeed, you are still not ready for it since you are still unspiritual. Isn’t that obvious from all the jealousy and wrangling that there is among you, from the way that you go on behaving like ordinary people? “

Notice Paul was talking to Christians, but said they were still unspiritual. That, he said, was because of their sinning. So obviously they were not mature Christians

By the way yes there are sins that don’t lead to death, they are human faults that are not serious offenses and are not deliberate or thought out. John says that all sins don’t lead to death. Everyone needs to understand that when a person is lead by the Holy Spirit they will not deliberately commit a sin, and if he or she is being led by the Holy Spirit, and deliberately commits a sin, there is no redemption for that person.

(1 John 1:8-10) “If we say we have no sin in us, we are deceiving ourselves and refusing to admit the truth; but if we acknowledge our sins, then God who is faithful and just will forgive our sins and purify us from everything that is wrong. To say that we have never sinned is to call God a liar and to show that his word is not in us.”

What John said is we all have sinned. He tells us that not all sin leads to death. After he explains all that once he didn’t have to keep on explaining. So when he says: (1 John 3:5-6) “Now you know that he appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen him or known him.”

My wife had a hard time with the teaching that Christians are dead to sin, because she is a scrupulous person and sees any human failure as sin. John said all wrongdoing is sin but all sin doesn’t lead to death.

If through some human weakness I become angry and strike out at someone without thinking, that would be a sin, but not a sin, which was willfully, committed.

(2 Peter 2:20-22)”and anyone who has escaped the pollution of the world once by coming to know the Lord and savior Jesus Christ, and who then allows himself to be entangled by it a second time and mastered, will end up in a worse state than he began in.”

(Hebrews 6: 4) “As for those people who were once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and received a share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and the powers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it is impossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Son of God and openly mocked Him.”

(Romans 6: 10 - 11) “When He died, He died, once for all, to sin, so His life now is life with God; and in that way, you too must consider yourselves to be dead to sin but alive for God in Jesus Christ.”

(Romans 8: 4) “He did this in order that the law’s just demands might be satisfied in us, who behave not as our unspiritual nature but as the Spirit dictates.”

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we should deliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice for them. There will be left only the dreadful prospect of judgment and of the raging fire that is to burn rebels. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses is ruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may be sure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who insults the Spirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will repay. And again: The Lord will judge his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”

(1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy; to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

Yes we can lose it if we turn our back on God.

Joann

This is not Catholic teaching, which is handed down from the Apostles. It is some later person’s interpretation of what Scripture says, without the help of those teachings not included in the Bible.

The Holy Spirit in dwells all believers. He is our teacher and guide in all we do. The Holy Spirit is also God ,Acts 5;3-4 The Holy Spirit searches our heart. 1Cor.2:10
Before Christ was crucified, he said he would send us the Counselor.

Jn.14:16 reads.
“I will ask the Father, and he will give you ‘another’ Counselor to be with you forever.17. the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him or knows him
But you jnow him, for he lives with you and will be in you.”

God bless,
bluelake

When a person sins, I don’t think The Lord leaves them. We confess our sins and he forgives us. A person is in the state of grace perhaps, until they sin again. Can we honestly say we do not sin everyday? I don’t think so. that is why we pray several times a day.
Jesus said, "I will never leave you. :slight_smile:

God bless,
bluelake

The whole idea of true faith is to REFRAIN from sin,since this is what sends one to Hell,
if we sin we are suppose to be truly sorry and sincere as to not repeat the offense again

Jesus never leaves us, its US who leave him.

Joann

. . . we are told in Holy Scripture that God’s Holy Spirit will not abide with the false or double-minded. Depend upon it there is no craft half so profitable and successful as simplicity.

St. Francis de Sales

Those who have the Holy Spirit cannot endure themselves, so well do they know their poor misery. The proud are those who have not the Holy Spirit.’

St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars

‘When people say that it is impossible to attain perfection, to be once and for all free from the passions, or to participate fully in the Holy Spirit, we should cite Holy Scripture against them, showing them that they are ignorant and speak falsely and dangerously. For the Lord said: “Become perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Matt. 5:48), perfection denoting total purity; and: “I desire these men to be with Me wherever I am, so that they may see My glory.” (John 17:24)’

St. Symeon Metaphrastis

‘Only the Holy Spirit can purify the intellect, for unless a greater power comes and overthrows the despoiler, what he has taken captive will never be set free (cf. Luke 11:21-22). In every way, therefore, and especially through peace of soul, we must make ourselves a dwelling-place for the Holy Spirit. Then we shall have the lamp of spiritual knowledge burning always within us; and when it is shining constantly in the inner shrine of the soul, not only will the intellect perceive all the dark and bitter attacks of the demons, but these attacks will be greatly weakened when exposed for what they are by that glorious and holy light. That is why the Apostle says: ‘Do not quench the Spirit’ (1 Thess. 5:19), meaning: “Do not grieve the goodness of the Holy Spirit by wicked actions or wicked thoughts, lest you be deprived of this protecting light.” The Spirit, since He is eternal and life-creating, cannot be quenched; but if He is grieved - that is if He withdraws - He leaves the intellect without the light of spiritual knowledge, dark and full of gloom.’

St. Diadochos of Photiki

The following is a letter by Saint. Maximus the Confessor and it explains in a very unique way what I have been saying, that people who know God do not sin.

The manner of birth from God within us is two-fold: the one bestows the grace of adoption, which is entirely present in potency in those who are born of God; the other introduces, wholly by active exertion, that grace which deliberately reorients the entire free choice of the one being born of God toward the God who gives birth. The first bears the grace, present in potency through faith alone; but the second, beyond, also engenders in the knower the sublimely divine likeness of the One known, that likeness being effected precisely through knowledge. Therefore the first manner of birth is observed in some because their will, not yet fully detached from its propensity to the flesh, has yet to be wholly endowed with the Spirit by participation in the divine mysteries that are made known through active endeavor. The inclination to sin does not disappear as long as they will it. For the Spirit does not give birth to an unwilling will, but converts the willing will toward deification. (So a person doesn’t stop sinning just because they will not to sin.) Whoever has participated in this deification through cognizance experience is incapable of reverting from right discernment in truth, once he has achieved this in action, to something else besides, which only pretends to be that same discernment. (Once a person comes to know God, through the Holy Spirit, they are incapable of reverting to their sinful ways.) It is like the eye, which, once it has looked upon the sun, cannot mistake it for the moon or any of the other stars in the heavens. With those undergoing the (second mode of) birth, the Holy Spirit takes the whole of their free choice and translates it completely from earth to heaven, and, through the true knowledge acquired by exertion, transfigures the mind with the blessed light rays of our God and Father, such that the mind is deemed another “God,” insofar as in its habitude if experiences, by grace, that which God himself does not experience but “is” in his very essence. With those undergoing this second mode of baptism, their free choice clearly becomes sinless in virtue and knowledge, as they are unable to negate what they have actively discerned through experience. So even if we have the Spirit of adoption, who is himself the Seed for enduring those begotten (through baptism) with the likeness of the Sower, but do not present him with a will cleansed of any inclination or disposition to something else, we therefore, even after being born of water and Spirit (Jn 3:5), willingly sin. But were we to prepare our will with knowledge to receive the operation of these agents-water and Spirit, I mean-then the mystical water would, through our practical life, cleanse our conscience, and the life-giving Spirit would bring about unchanging perfection of the good in us through knowledge acquired in experience. Precisely for that reason he leaves, to each of us who are still able to sin, the sheer desire to surrender our whole selves willing to the Spirit.

St. Maximus the Confessor

"
By the way yes there are sins that don’t lead to death, they are human faults that are not serious offenses and are not deliberate or thought out. John says that all sins don’t lead to death. Everyone needs to understand that when a person is lead by the Holy Spirit they will not deliberately commit a sin, and if he or she is being led by the Holy Spirit, and deliberately commits a sin, there is no redemption for that person."

You should be careful with blanket statements…Repentance is always available…Like a few weeks ago I was tired and made an unkind comment to my beloved…I knew it wasn’t a blessing to her and immediately felt the chiding of the Holy Spirit, repented and apologized to her …It was a sinful response, I chose to respond in the flesh…There is a sin unto death…Blaspheming the Holy Spirit…Followers of Christ normally don’t have a problem in that area…I occasionally run into young believers who were worried they did that…I ask if they are concerned they did…If they say yes, I say that’s a sure sign they didn’t…Remember they were dealing with the demonic and the denial of Christ’s power and authority…

(Acts 5:1-11) “There was another man, however, called Ananias. He and his wife, Sapphira, agreed to sell a property; but with his wife’s connivance he kept back part of the proceeds, and brought the rest and presented it to the apostles. Ananias, Peter said ‘now can Satan have so possessed you that you should lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the money from the land? While you still owned the land, wasn’t it yours to keep, and after you had sold it wasn’t the money yours to do with as you liked? What put this scheme into your mind? It is not to men that you have lied, but to God. When he heard this Ananias fell down dead. This made a profound impression on everyone present. The younger men got up, wrapped the body in a sheet, carried it out and buried it.

About three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had taken place. Peter challenged her, ‘Tell me was this the price you sold the land for? ‘Yes,’ she said ‘that was the price.’ Peter then said, ‘So you and your husband have agreed to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test! What made you do it? You hear those footsteps? They have just been to bury your husband; they will carry you out, too.’ Instantly she dropped dead at his feet. When the young men came in they found she was dead, and they carried her out and buried her by the side of her husband. This made a profound impression on the whole Church and on all who heard it.

A person who is being lead by the Holy Spirit is telling him that they will obey God. God would never tell one to sin. When a person deliberately commits sin he or she is lying to the Holy Spirit.

That shook up the early church as their new faith was growing…We sin because we follow the flesh and disobey the Spirit…Christians sin everyday…They make a wrong choice even when they know what’s right…The Holy Spirit’s job is using His word to convict us…He resides in this temple of flesh to use that word we hide in our heart…As we mature we lean and God starts on the “little foxes” that trip us…If the Holy Spirit let us He would be in an out very day…Paul said he was the chief of sinners…Jesus said He would complete the work He started…If you believe that them He will do His best to see you through…

You know what is so sad? It is that very few people become mature. People don’t even know that Jesus gave us his Holy Spirit to teach and guide us, and in this way man can defeat Satan/sin.

Paul said he was the chief of sinners, but he also told us how sin was defeated. First he told us how impossible it was for man not to sin, without God’s help, in Romans 7. Then in Romans 8 he explained how we could overcame Satan/sin.

If one knows God they will not sin. People who sin only know of God.

(1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hope must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, because to sin is to break the law. Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him or known Him. My children do not let anyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy; to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinner from the beginning. It was to undo all that the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seed remains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”

We don’t mature because we choose not to die daily and walk in the spirit…We choose to rely on milk and not let the meat change us…Paul experienced it all the time when he visited churches all over…It the word, that what the Holy Spirit uses to bring us to maturity…That’s why eh said "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth…That’s why His word is a light and lamp to us…That’s why I always tell people to get into the word themselves…I sure don’t want to be talking to Paul or Peter someday …He asks “hey remember when I talked about this or that”…I sure don’t want to be saying… "we’ll i heard my pastor mention that once…Wait till rougher time ahead and see what people scramble to…We haven’t seen what it’s like for believers in China that have to meet underground and have to risk thier life to get just one bible so they may learn His words…

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