"I'm Catholic, just not *ROMAN* Catholic....."


#1

"I'm Catholic, just not Roman Catholic."

Does that statement bother you?

I very much enjoyed this article about that claim:

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2012/03/some-anglican-difficulties.html

.
.


#2

The Eastern and the Oriental Orthodox have claimed to be the Catholic Chuch for ages and ages. Is this new to you?


#3

What amazes me is that Eastern Orthodox Christians have been using the term "Catholic" for centuries and nobody whines about it. Anglicans have a shared history with Roman Catholics as well, however, some Roman Catholics seem "irked" that some Anglicans use the term. Get over it would be my response. :D


#4

[quote="CleverUserName, post:1, topic:287610"]
"I'm Catholic, just not Roman Catholic."

Does that statement bother you?

I very much enjoyed this article about that claim:

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2012/03/some-anglican-difficulties.html
.
.

[/quote]

The Father's article isn't anything new, and I'm not surprised regarding his stand, nor does it offend me.

As you can see by my profile, I'm not afraid to claim my catholicity as a Lutheran, as historic Lutheranism always has. We confess our catholicity in the Creeds, and confess our membership in the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. And, guess we can clarify by also adding - "not currently in communion with the Bishop of Rome".
Pray for the day that our division ends.

Jon


#5

"Moreover, in the Catholic Church itself, all possible care must be taken, that we hold that faith which has been believed everywhere, always, by all. For that is truly and in the strictest sense "Catholic," which, as the name itself and the reason of the thing declare, comprehends all universally. This rule we shall observe if we follow universality, antiquity, consent. We shall follow universality if we confess that one faith to be true, which the whole Church throughout the world confesses; antiquity, if we in no wise depart from those interpretations which it is manifest were notoriously held by our holy ancestors and fathers; consent, in like manner, if in antiquity itself we adhere to the consentient definitions and determinations of all, or at the least of almost all priests and doctors. . ."

"He is the true and genuine Catholic who loves the truth of God, who loves the Church, who loves the Body of Christ, who esteems divine religion and the Catholic Faith above every thing, above the authority, above the regard, above the genius, above the eloquence, above the philosophy, of every man whatsoever; who sets light by all of these, and continuing steadfast and established in the faith, resolves that he will believe that, and that only, which he is sure the Catholic Church has held universally and from ancient time; but that whatsoever new and unheard-of doctrine he shall find to have been furtively introduced by some one or another, besides that of all, or contrary to that of all the saints, this, he will understand, does not pertain to religion, but is permitted as a trial, being instructed especially by the words of the blessed Apostle Paul, who writes thus in his first Epistle to the Corinthians, "There must needs be heresies, that they who are approved may be made manifest among you:" as though he should say, This is the reason why the authors of Heresies are not immediately rooted up by God, namely, that they who are approved may be made manifest; that is, that it may be apparent of each individual, how tenacious and faithful and steadfast he is in his love of the Catholic faith."

St. Vincent of Lerins Commonitory
newadvent.org/fathers/3506.htm


#6

[quote="CleverUserName, post:1, topic:287610"]
"I'm Catholic, just not Roman Catholic."

Does that statement bother you?

I very much enjoyed this article about that claim:

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2012/03/some-anglican-difficulties.html

.
.

[/quote]

**No it does not. However it does bother me that you are referencing an article that is not Caholic.

All Catholics are with Eastern or Western Rite. All of them are in union with the Pope. The MAIN and ESSENTIAL difference between Catholics and other demoninations is the belief in the REAL PRESENCE - body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ at the Mass and after. The Episcopal Church does not reserve the Eucarhist...and why not - if it is truly Jesus Christ why would it suddenly not be. This teaching of the Episcopal Church actually contradicts itself.

If a 18 K gold necklace is truly 18 K - how can it suddenly NOT BE? If the Euahrist is the Body of Jesus Christ - how can it suddenly NOT BE?**


#7

[quote="CleverUserName, post:1, topic:287610"]
"I'm Catholic, just not Roman Catholic."

Does that statement bother you?

I very much enjoyed this article about that claim:

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2012/03/some-anglican-difficulties.html

.
.

[/quote]

Not at all,because some people think they are two separate entities. Roman Catholic refers to the Latin Rite,thus it is part of the universal church.


#8

The article clearly shows the bigotry that "Roman" entails. I am not Roman Catholic I am Catholic.

The Eastern and the Oriental Orthodox have claimed to be the Catholic Chuch for ages and ages. Is this new to you?

Yet they call themselves what? Orthodox?


#9

[quote="adrift, post:8, topic:287610"]
The article clearly shows the bigotry that "Roman" entails. I am not Roman Catholic I am Catholic.

Yet they call themselves what? Orthodox?

[/quote]

One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. We call it that at every liturgy, when we confess the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed in its original form (literally so, when we do it in Greek).


#10

[quote="adrift, post:8, topic:287610"]
The article clearly shows the bigotry that "Roman" entails. I am not Roman Catholic I am Catholic.

Yet they call themselves what? Orthodox?

[/quote]

The EO's official name is the Orthodox *Catholic *Church.


#11

This has never been on my "things that bother me radar." :cool:


#12

[quote="CleverUserName, post:1, topic:287610"]
"I'm Catholic, just not Roman Catholic."

Does that statement bother you?

I very much enjoyed this article about that claim:

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2012/03/some-anglican-difficulties.html

.
.

[/quote]

The problem with the article is that Fr. Longenecker begs the question. Yes, by the definition of Christians in communion with Rome, being Catholic means being in communion with Rome. But when he says, "we will define what it means to belong tour Church," he's assuming the point he needs to be proving--that the term "Catholic Church" belongs uniquely to those who are in communion with Rome.

I actually think that it's much easier to show that Anglicans are not Catholic than that only members of the Roman Communion are Catholic. The real candidates for "Catholics but not Roman Catholics" are the Orthodox.

And yes, I'm in an anomalous position: I basically believe in a two-branch (or maybe four-branch, including the non-Chalcedonian Easterners) theory of the Church--but neither "branch" agrees with my theory. So I'm an Anglican who takes a rather dim view of my own Communion's claims to Catholicity.

On the positive side, I'm an argumentative person and this position gives me something to argue about with everyone:p.

Edwin


#13

[quote="jmjconder, post:6, topic:287610"]
**No it does not. However it does bother me that you are referencing an article that is not Caholic.

All Catholics are with Eastern or Western Rite. All of them are in union with the Pope. The MAIN and ESSENTIAL difference between Catholics and other demoninations is the belief in the REAL PRESENCE - body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ at the Mass and after. The Episcopal Church does not reserve the Eucarhist...and why not - if it is truly Jesus Christ why would it suddenly not be. This teaching of the Episcopal Church actually contradicts itself.

If a 18 K gold necklace is truly 18 K - how can it suddenly NOT BE? If the Euahrist is the Body of Jesus Christ - how can it suddenly NOT BE?**

[/quote]

I agree. Also, some Eastern Catholics (who are in full communion with Rome) don't identify as "Roman" Catholic because they don't celebrate the Roman-rite liturgy. ie. maronites, melkite, ukranian etc.


#14

P.S. As long as the Anglican is in full communion with the see of Rome, I don't care. :D


#15

[quote="jmjconder, post:6, topic:287610"]
** The Episcopal Church does not reserve the Eucarhist**

[/quote]

False.

Come to my parish and I'll show you the reserved Sacrament. We will pardon you for refusing to genuflect.

Every Episcopal parish I can recall visiting has reserved the Sacrament--certainly all three that I've attended regularly in my 14 years of being an Episcopalian have done so.

Now I'm sure you can find some low-church parishes that don't--probably a lot more in England and Australia and other such benighted places than in the U.S.!

Edwin


#16

[quote="Contarini, post:15, topic:287610"]
False.

Come to my parish and I'll show you the reserved Sacrament. We will pardon you for refusing to genuflect.

Every Episcopal parish I can recall visiting has reserved the Sacrament--certainly all three that I've attended regularly in my 14 years of being an Episcopalian have done so.

Now I'm sure you can find some low-church parishes that don't--probably a lot more in England and Australia and other such benighted places than in the U.S.!

Edwin

[/quote]

Does the RC recognize that the Episcopalians have the sacrament? I know the RC recognizes the Orthodox position on the Real Presence etc (though they, of course, do not reserve it since it is often intincted). Thanks for any insight and clarification you may offer.


#17

[quote="Cavaradossi, post:9, topic:287610"]
One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. We call it that at every liturgy, when we confess the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed in its original form (literally so, when we do it in Greek).

[/quote]

But you identify yourself as Orthodox right?


#18

[quote="Contarini, post:15, topic:287610"]
False.

Come to my parish and I'll show you the reserved Sacrament. We will pardon you for refusing to genuflect.

Every Episcopal parish I can recall visiting has reserved the Sacrament--certainly all three that I've attended regularly in my 14 years of being an Episcopalian have done so.

Now I'm sure you can find some low-church parishes that don't--probably a lot more in England and Australia and other such benighted places than in the U.S.!

Edwin

[/quote]

As do those Anglican Churches, generally, who are not in communion with TEC.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus


#19

[quote="Rejoice_Always, post:16, topic:287610"]
Does the RC recognize that the Episcopalians have the sacrament? I know the RC recognizes the Orthodox position on the Real Presence etc (though they, of course, do not reserve it since it is often intincted). Thanks for any insight and clarification you may offer.

[/quote]

In general, no, IAW Apostolicae Curae. Which is why no Anglican would expect you to genuflect toward our tabernacles.

The possible exceptions are too theoretical to consider.

GKC

Anglicanus-Catholicus


#20

[quote="GKC, post:18, topic:287610"]
As do those Anglican Churches, generally, who are not in communion with TEC.

GKC

posterus traditus Anglicanus

[/quote]

Do Anglicans or Episcopalians have Eucharistic Adoration?


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