I'm considering divorce


#1

My Wife and I fight every day we're together, and I think it's an unhealthy way to raise our 21 month old.

It's not an option I like, but I feel like it's my last one. I feel like it makes things worse around our baby than if she were to be with just one of us at a time.

Every day is an awful struggle. I'm usually sleeping at work these days and we don't even talk. When we do talk, it quickly escalates into yelling and screaming. She refuses to seek councelling with me.

What do I do?


#2

Dr. Phil used to say (probably still does) that you have to do everything you possibly can to fix the marriage before you walk away. If you can't say you've done everything, then you need to go back and keep working on it.

I don't know how old you are, or how long you have been married, but I did go through a time like this with my husband before we were married - about two years into our relationship. My problem (and I really was the problem) was that I didn't know how to be in a long-term relationship. I was sabotaging my own happiness because I didn't know how to deal with it. He eventually got fed up with my nastiness and stopped trying, at which point I realised what I was doing and made a huge effort to mend my behaviour.

My story is not your story, but I'd like to suggest that you keep struggling through, trying to open the lines of communication. If she won't see a counsellor, you can still see one yourself. Remember, the only person you can change is yourself - can you do anything differently that might improve the situation?


#3

I feel for you situation. What to do pray. Go to a good councilar even if she won't go with you. Start with your parish priest. Did I mention prayer?;) I will pray for you too.


#4

Did you know that many couples who stand where you stand and are then talked to again in 5 years have the greatest joy in their marriages?

Fight for your wife. Marriage is impossibly hard work, but with Christ’s love and strength you can do it. When you push through these tough situations, only good and wonderful things liw on the otherside. See, marriage is like a tree. Most of the external growth (what you see) happens when there is plenty of rain. However, the true strength is in the roots and it is only during the dry seasons that those roots go deeper.

Divorce may seem like a solution, but it isn’t. It won’t fix things and will cause your child to be raised in a broken home which is so damaging and hurtful to kids. Stick it out - try to win your wife’s heart back. You can do it!


#5

As the member “admonsta” suggested, you can consult with a counsellor.

Another is, if you are a catholic, you can’t think about separation. If you think so, u never read or understand the teaching of Church and Bible. One can easily resolve these kids of issues with regular reading of Bible. So whenever you face issues, the most suitable words will come to your mind.

Next is, I don’t think, you love your wife. If you love, you are ready to adjust, forgive and pray for her. Jesus gives perfect partner for each of us. Perfection never means that, you are having happiness always. We should make our life happy with following His words in day today life. Never look around other family and what they are doing. Only listens to your inner voice, what church and Bible teaches and follows that. Its not easy for you to do alone but easy when you give everything to God and ask for His help. Jesus, Guardian Angels and Saints are always there to help us. In addition to that, the members of catholic Forum and especially prayer warriors are there to pray for you. I too remember you and pray for your married life. So you are not alone on this matter.

So just start from today onwards to pray for your wife and adjust with her for next one month. Do one Rosary regularly in the morning and evening. You will see miracles on your life. And I wish to hear from you regulary or weekly with changes on your life. That way, you can focuss on your decision and share experience for other people who are struggling like you.


#6

[quote="Whitacre_Girl, post:4, topic:243271"]
Did you know that many couples who stand where you stand and are then talked to again in 5 years have the greatest joy in their marriages?

Fight for your wife. Marriage is impossibly hard work, but with Christ's love and strength you can do it. When you push through these tough situations, only good and wonderful things liw on the otherside. See, marriage is like a tree. Most of the external growth (what you see) happens when there is plenty of rain. However, the true strength is in the roots and it is only during the dry seasons that those roots go deeper.

**
Divorce may seem like a solution, but it isn't. It won't fix things and will cause your child to be raised in a broken home which is so damaging and hurtful to kids. Stick it out - try to win your wife's heart back. You can do it!**

[/quote]

I've fought for her for years now. And I get slapped in the face as a result. I get verbally abused all of the time. I am unwelcome in my own home. I have been "sticking it out" for as long as I can remember.

[quote="phpBroker, post:5, topic:243271"]
As the member "admonsta" suggested, **you can consult with a counsellor.

Another is, if you are a catholic, you can't think about separation.**
If you think so, u never read or understand the teaching of Church and Bible. One can easily resolve these kids of issues with regular reading of Bible. So whenever you face issues, the most suitable words will come to your mind.

Next is, I don't think, you love your wife. If you love, you are ready to adjust, forgive and pray for her. Jesus gives perfect partner for each of us. Perfection never means that, you are having happiness always. We should make our life happy with following His words in day today life. Never look around other family and what they are doing. Only listens to your inner voice, what church and Bible teaches and follows that. Its not easy for you to do alone but easy when you give everything to God and ask for His help. Jesus, Guardian Angels and Saints are always there to help us. In addition to that, the members of catholic Forum and especially prayer warriors are there to pray for you. I too remember you and pray for your married life. So you are not alone on this matter.

So just start from today onwards to pray for your wife and adjust with her for next one month. Do one Rosary regularly in the morning and evening. You will see miracles on your life. And I wish to hear from you regulary or weekly with changes on your life. That way, you can focuss on your decision and share experience for other people who are struggling like you.

[/quote]

I have seen a councillor. He didn't help me, as we came to the conclusion that we needed marriage therapy. I am not saying everything is my Wife's fault, but when she can't defend herself, there's only so much that can be done. When I don't understand what I'm doing that is hurtful, I can't improve.

I wasn't raised Catholic. I chose to become catholic later in life. I could just as easily choose to walk away. I know it sounds awful, but my staying makes all three of us miserable. I want it to work with my wife. I do fight for her. And I get apathy or hatred in return.

Last highlighted point: I'm done here. You don't think I love my Wife because I have reached a breaking point? Because I can't take being ignored and being emotionally abused anymore? Because I can't take being locked out of my own house and sleeping at my job anymore?

I'm done. Thanks for the "advice"


#7

Are you ready to pray for her and for other families struggling like you for one month ? If you wish so, you will see glory of god on your life and you will get courage to face future issues.


#8

Don't abandon your daughter.
She needs you as much as she needs your wife.
Tell your wife that you wanna work on the marriage but if she is not willing, you and your daughter are leaving together. Thats how its gotta be. You must fight to keep your family together. If the wife wants to break the family apart , then she is the one should be alone.

Have you tried the love dare book?
I am saying it because it simply sounds strange that your wife reacts to you with apathy and rage, unless there is a real reason, or that she is mentally ill.

Does she have psychological issues?
Does she have cause for resentment?
Are you present emotionally, do you communicate with her, or are you a silent distant man who has an affair with his work? (There are many absent(minded) fathers and husbands in the world)
Have you been faithful to her? (that is, no physical affairs, no emotional affairs, no porn).
What are the things that always trigger the fights?
How was your premarital life? Did she have rage problems back then?

Just some things to ask yourself.

How can she lock you out of the house? Do you come home too late at night? Did she change the keys?
Its a rather confusing post...


#9

Prayers for you. Can I ask though: Why would you come to a Catholic forum for advice and get annoyed when you get Catholic Answers?


#10

I’ve been where you are and had situations with my teenagers to boot and made it through. Marriage is a series of highs and lows. Right now you’re both at a low, don’t give up.

I’ll offer you two suggestions and pray for you.

  1. Start praying the St Jude novena, or some other novena you feel drawn too, St Jude is the patron of hopelessness.
  2. Read the book Love and Respect by Eggerichs. The book basically has three parts, one for both you and your wife, another part for you and another part for your wife.

Even if you wife won’t read it at least read the couples part and your part and do your part in the marriage, that’s your responsibility to God.

Right now don’t make any decisions or any rash judgements! Any decision you make will be based on emotion, emotional decisions are never correct.

Pray, read and leave the rest to God. He WILL have your back!


#11

[quote="krunchyfrogg, post:6, topic:243271"]
I've fought for her for years now. And I get slapped in the face as a result. I get verbally abused all of the time. I am unwelcome in my own home. I have been "sticking it out" for as long as I can remember.
I have seen a councillor. He didn't help me, as we came to the conclusion that we needed marriage therapy. I am not saying everything is my Wife's fault, but when she can't defend herself, there's only so much that can be done. When I don't understand what I'm doing that is hurtful, I can't improve.

I wasn't raised Catholic. I chose to become catholic later in life. I could just as easily choose to walk away. I know it sounds awful, but my staying makes all three of us miserable. I want it to work with my wife. I do fight for her. And I get apathy or hatred in return.

Last highlighted point: I'm done here. You don't think I love my Wife because I have reached a breaking point? Because I can't take being ignored and being emotionally abused anymore? Because I can't take being locked out of my own house and sleeping at my job anymore?

I'm done. Thanks for the "advice"

[/quote]

It takes two to make a marriage work, not one. If your wife isn't willing to work with you, then she needs a wakeup call. If you, and especially your child, live in a toxic environment, separation might just be something you two need. You are Catholic now though, and if you want to be in communion with the Church, you know that you can be separated, but you must live as if you were still married (in other words, you can't date other people).

Personally, I don't see the difference between living in hell as a married couple, and living alone in peace. No, actually I do see the difference. My parents fought like animals and the environment was toxic and hell on earth. I was much happier, and so were they, when they divorced. There is nothing noble about remaining in a situation that hurts everyone involved. But be sure you understand, just because you get a civil separation or divorce does not give you a ticket to date others and marry another. If your marriage is not annulled, you have to be alone...not that this is a bad thing. I'd rather be alone than live in a battlefield. And until your wife is agreeable to help you work on your marriage, that's how it's going to be. It takes two to make a marriage work.


#12

Why not try telling this to your wife? If she is as bitter and angry as you believe, then she’ll probably have a long list of things she’d like you to change about yourself. It would at least give you a starting point and help you understand what her grievances are.

What if you were to sit down and write her a letter explaining how unhappy you are but that you’re committed to the marriage. Ask her to write you back. If you can’t talk without arguing then writing will let you voice your hurts and fears without any risk of escalation. Just read and reread and pray about the letter before you give it to her so that you don’t put in writing anything that you’ll later regret.


#13

See if she’d like to go on a Retrouvaille weekend with you .

www.retrouvaille.org


#14

I have been where you are. This too shall pass, but you both need to be willing to work on it. My Dh and I went to marriage counseling and it was great. We learned about things that we didn’t know about, as to why each of us were frustrated and such. Marriage counseling is essential. Have you considered speaking with your priest for guidance?

I am really sorry that you are having such a difficult time and wish I had better advice to offer (and yes I did note, that your wife doesn’t want to go to counseling) :slight_smile:

One thing that has helped me through a lot of tough times is daily prayer. Say a daily rosary and ask for special graces to deal with the situation at hand. Prayer is so essential. I will pray for your family. God bless.


#15

[quote="krunchyfrogg, post:1, topic:243271"]

What do I do?

[/quote]

divorce is not an option
if she won't go to counselling, you go and learn techniques to communicate properly and to deflect her outbursts until she is calm enough to consider change
you can't change her, you can change yourself

3 lives are at stake here

there is a lot more to this story, this type of anger does not come out of nowhere


#16

Destructive abusive marriages are not marriages.

I come from parents who divorced when I was in my early 20's. Would have been better for all of us, mental health wise, if they had divorced when we were kids.

There is this general assumption that all divorces hurt the kids beyond repair. That assumption is wrong.

Living in profoundly abusive destructive dysfunction families is much worse. Promise. I speak from experience.

There are many people who have mental health issues if not down right legitimate mental illness that make healthy marriages impossible. And marriage is hard work for people who are mentally healthy.

I dont know of all the particulars of your situation OP. I say keep finding a counselor that can help you. Sometimes it takes awhile to find the right now.

God Bless. Im sorry your home life seems like a nightmare. :(


#17

[quote="phpBroker, post:7, topic:243271"]
Are you ready to pray for her and for other families struggling like you for one month ? If you wish so, you will see glory of god on your life and you will get courage to face future issues.

[/quote]

I pray for her, my daughter and myself all the time.

[quote="GraceDK, post:8, topic:243271"]

Don't abandon your daughter.
She needs you as much as she needs your wife.
Tell your wife that you wanna work on the marriage but if she is not willing, you and your daughter are leaving together. Thats how its gotta be. You must fight to keep your family together. If the wife wants to break the family apart , then she is the one should be alone.

[/quote]

I agree with you, but the problem is that I work 6 days a week and my Wife's job is to be at home with our daughter. If I leave with our daughter, I have nobody who can watch her.

[quote="GraceDK, post:8, topic:243271"]

Have you tried the love dare book?

[/quote]

No, what is that?

[quote="GraceDK, post:8, topic:243271"]

I am saying it because it simply sounds strange that your wife reacts to you with apathy and rage, unless there is a real reason, or that she is mentally ill.

Does she have psychological issues?
Does she have cause for resentment?
Are you present emotionally, do you communicate with her, or are you a silent distant man who has an affair with his work? (There are many absent(minded) fathers and husbands in the world)
Have you been faithful to her? (that is, no physical affairs, no emotional affairs, no porn).
What are the things that always trigger the fights?
How was your premarital life? Did she have rage problems back then?

Just some things to ask yourself.

[/quote]

She's a very angry person. She lost both of her parents as a teeneager (a few years apart) and she was abandoned by her older brother. She has a warped view of the world in the way that she will make assumptions and vehemently stick to them. She's also very intelligent, and condescending to others about it.

I have always been faithful to my Wife.

Our premarital life was a lot better than this, but when she worked, she'd always work very long hours and we wouldn't spend so much time together.

[quote="GraceDK, post:8, topic:243271"]

How can she lock you out of the house? Do you come home too late at night? Did she change the keys?

[/quote]

I only come home late if I need to because of work, which is not that often. If I were to leave work on time, I'd be home by 4pm. My job does have mandatory overtime, and I'd say I honestly come home around 5pm every day. I'm up and out of the house by 6am before she is even awake. When I get home, I "give her a break" by going for a walk outside with our daughter, or playing with her. I never get a break myself, a fact that's completely ignored by my Wife, no matter how many times I say it.

We have two locks on our front door. She's changed one of the locks, and never given me the key. If she's mad at me, she just keeps that one locked. Unbeknownst to her, I have copied that lock, but I've never used it in her presence because I want to show her that I do respect her decision to lock me out (and if I ever used it, I'm sure she'd just change the locks again and I might not have a chance to copy the keys again).

[quote="GraceDK, post:8, topic:243271"]

Its a rather confusing post...

[/quote]

I know you don't have the whole story. I'm sorry for that. I could explain everything I know and you'd still only have my half of the story.

[quote="PiousTemplar, post:9, topic:243271"]
Prayers for you. Can I ask though: Why would you come to a Catholic forum for advice and get annoyed when you get Catholic Answers?

[/quote]

Thank you. I wasn't annoyed until I was told that I didn't love my wife. That's an assumption no one could know.

[quote="Rence, post:11, topic:243271"]
It takes two to make a marriage work, not one. If your wife isn't willing to work with you, then she needs a wakeup call. If you, and especially your child, live in a toxic environment, separation might just be something you two need. You are Catholic now though, and if you want to be in communion with the Church, you know that you can be separated, but you must live as if you were still married (in other words, you can't date other people).

Personally, I don't see the difference between living in hell as a married couple, and living alone in peace. No, actually I do see the difference. My parents fought like animals and the environment was toxic and hell on earth. I was much happier, and so were they, when they divorced. There is nothing noble about remaining in a situation that hurts everyone involved. But be sure you understand, just because you get a civil separation or divorce does not give you a ticket to date others and marry another. If your marriage is not annulled, you have to be alone...not that this is a bad thing. I'd rather be alone than live in a battlefield. And until your wife is agreeable to help you work on your marriage, that's how it's going to be. It takes two to make a marriage work.

[/quote]

I would rather live a chaste life separated from my Wife than be in that home if she is unwilling to work on things with me.

I can't promise that would happen after a long period of time, but I'd sure try.


#18

[quote="nodito, post:12, topic:243271"]
Why not try telling this to your wife? If she is as bitter and angry as you believe, then she'll probably have a long list of things she'd like you to change about yourself. It would at least give you a starting point and help you understand what her grievances are.

What if you were to sit down and write her a letter explaining how unhappy you are but that you're committed to the marriage. Ask her to write you back. If you can't talk without arguing then writing will let you voice your hurts and fears without any risk of escalation. Just read and reread and pray about the letter before you give it to her so that you don't put in writing anything that you'll later regret.

[/quote]

I have tried telling her. What I need to work on is... vague.

1)I need to listen better
2)I need to be more mature
3)I need to not be so stupid
4)I need to not be an idiot
5)I need to not be an uncaring *******.
6)I need to be a better father. Being a sperm donor doesn't make you a father.

The problem is I'll ask her what she means, and it just turns into her insulting me (as if the statements above aren't insult enough). I don't get explanations, I get screamed at, and I shut down. I'm in immense pain. And when we do fight and our daughter gets upset, my wife coddles her and tells her she's sorry and that it's my fault. My wife is poisoning her mind! She's only 20 months old, but she will understand and believe anything my wife tells her as she grows older.

[quote="Mamanurse, post:14, topic:243271"]
I have been where you are. This too shall pass, but you both need to be willing to work on it. My Dh and I went to marriage counseling and it was great. We learned about things that we didn't know about, as to why each of us were frustrated and such. Marriage counseling is essential. Have you considered speaking with your priest for guidance?

I am really sorry that you are having such a difficult time and wish I had better advice to offer (and yes I did note, that your wife doesn't want to go to counseling) :)

One thing that has helped me through a lot of tough times is daily prayer. Say a daily rosary and ask for special graces to deal with the situation at hand. Prayer is so essential. I will pray for your family. God bless.

[/quote]

Thanks.

[quote="Seatuck, post:13, topic:243271"]
See if she'd like to go on a Retrouvaille weekend with you .

www.retrouvaille.org

[/quote]

I suggested that to her. It was scoffed at and then ignored. I've also bought that Kirk Cameron movie where he's a fireman and it's supposed to show a couple why they should fight for their marriage, and what's really at stake (sorry can't remember the name). I was told, "yeah, we can watch that" and never have.

[quote="puzzleannie, post:15, topic:243271"]
divorce is not an option
if she won't go to counselling, you go and learn techniques to communicate properly and to deflect her outbursts until she is calm enough to consider change
you can't change her, you can change yourself

3 lives are at stake here

there is a lot more to this story, this type of anger does not come out of nowhere

[/quote]

I've tried counselling to become a more effective communicator.

[quote="Marie5890, post:16, topic:243271"]
Destructive abusive marriages are not marriages.

I come from parents who divorced when I was in my early 20's. Would have been better for all of us, mental health wise, if they had divorced when we were kids.

There is this general assumption that all divorces hurt the kids beyond repair. That assumption is wrong.

Living in profoundly abusive destructive dysfunction families is much worse. Promise. I speak from experience.

There are many people who have mental health issues if not down right legitimate mental illness that make healthy marriages impossible. And marriage is hard work for people who are mentally healthy.

I dont know of all the particulars of your situation OP. I say keep finding a counselor that can help you. Sometimes it takes awhile to find the right now.

God Bless. Im sorry your home life seems like a nightmare. :(

[/quote]

Thanks. :(


#19

[quote="krunchyfrogg, post:17, topic:243271"]
I pray for her, my daughter and myself all the time.

[/quote]

That is the best place to start and do not every stop doing this. Pray the rosary daily, place them in the hands of our Blessed Mother. Pray before the Blessed Sacrament in Adoration. Pray novenas.

[quote="krunchyfrogg, post:17, topic:243271"]
I agree with you, but the problem is that I work 6 days a week and my Wife's job is to be at home with our daughter. If I leave with our daughter, I have nobody who can watch her. No, what is that?She's a very angry person. She lost both of her parents as a teeneager (a few years apart) and she was abandoned by her older brother. She has a warped view of the world in the way that she will make assumptions and vehemently stick to them. She's also very intelligent, and condescending to others about it.

[/quote]

I think that this has become the main issue and maybe why you seem to be having problems. Seeing as how she lost parents early in her life she may now feel (just my opinion here) that holding onto something is not realistic. Therefore, before someone has a chance to leave her, she will push them away to "beat them to the punch" and not allow them the chance to hurt her first. These are issues that she needs to seek help for, I know that you cannot force her to go to see a counselor, but that will be something that is the best for her.

Just a thought, fast for your wife. Check out E5 Men online.

[quote="krunchyfrogg, post:17, topic:243271"]
I have always been faithful to my Wife.

[/quote]

Continue to be that way!

[quote="krunchyfrogg, post:17, topic:243271"]
Our premarital life was a lot better than this, but when she worked, she'd always work very long hours and we wouldn't spend so much time together.
I only come home late if I need to because of work, which is not that often. If I were to leave work on time, I'd be home by 4pm. My job does have mandatory overtime, and I'd say I honestly come home around 5pm every day. I'm up and out of the house by 6am before she is even awake. When I get home, I "give her a break" by going for a walk outside with our daughter, or playing with her. I never get a break myself, a fact that's completely ignored by my Wife, no matter how many times I say it.

[/quote]

Of course premarital life is different, it is the time of getting to know each other and growing in love, but once you are married you mesh two lives into one 24/7 and that changes the dynamic. We have to work together to make that a "well oiled machine" to keep things moving along in a peaceful way. Not to say that there will not be fights and disagreement, but we try as best we can.

Remember this when you say that you do not get a break, Marriage is not 50/50, marriage is 100/0! You give everything that you have. Once she does/feels the same then you have something. You living your life with joy and happiness will be the best example. Taking your "break" in the evening when your daughter is in bed and being happy that you have 30 minutes to do what you want instead of the 2 hours you would like (just a hypothetical) will be a great example. Marriage is for better and for worse, right now you are in the trenches of the worst and I feel for you as a brother in Christ.

[quote="krunchyfrogg, post:17, topic:243271"]
We have two locks on our front door. She's changed one of the locks, and never given me the key. If she's mad at me, she just keeps that one locked. Unbeknownst to her, I have copied that lock, but I've never used it in her presence because I want to show her that I do respect her decision to lock me out (and if I ever used it, I'm sure she'd just change the locks again and I might not have a chance to copy the keys again).
I know you don't have the whole story. I'm sorry for that. I could explain everything I know and you'd still only have my half of the story.

[/quote]

There are many issues here, not to say that you do not have any and that she holds the majority of them, but it seems that you both need help (not judging, just saying) I think that for you, you need to seek the help on your own and she can come along when she is ready. The thing is that you cannot force her to help. And you do not need to be a doormat for her to walk all over. You deserve the same respect that she does, please remember that.

[quote="krunchyfrogg, post:17, topic:243271"]
Thank you. I wasn't annoyed until I was told that I didn't love my wife. That's an assumption no one could know.I would rather live a chaste life separated from my Wife than be in that home if she is unwilling to work on things with me.

I can't promise that would happen after a long period of time, but I'd sure try.

[/quote]

The movie you are thinking of is Fireproof and the Love Dare is the book from that movie. If she will not watch it with you, simply start watching it yourself and maybe she will join you? Or suggest it again to her?

I will pray for you and your wife in my daily rosary. From your posts, I can tell that you are in pain and that this is not an easy thing for you to be going through. Mere words on a Catholic post will not make it better, but it is a start.


#20

I had a friend in college whose parents had a terrible marriage with awful fighting and some damage to property bordering on domestic violence. Her father was an alcoholic and eventually her parents separated. She said once in class (maybe elementary or high school) the teacher asked the students, if their parents fought pretty badly, would they want their parents to stay together or separate? Almost all of the kids said they'd want their parents to stay together.

My friend said, they said that b/c they have not experienced it.

She was profoundly relieved when her father left the home and so was her younger sister.


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