I'm not "protesting" anything...


#1

…but for the lack of a better term, you may call me Protestant.

Seriously though. Do you also think the term “Protestant” is just a left-over label that isn’t really appropriate in this day and age?


#2

You are not protesting anything… yes you are, by protesting that you are not:whacky:


#3

When someone these days is referred to as a “Protestant,” it isn’t to say that they are actively protesting the current situation they are in. Rather, it indicates that their faith tradition reflects the inovations of the original “Reformation” Protestants – namely: Sola Fide, Sola Scriptura (including the primacy of personal interpretation), the denial of one, visible and hierachical church, and the rejection of effective sacraments, among other things.

In fact, the online Webster says:

1 capitalized…b : a member of any of several church denominations denying the universal authority of the Pope and affirming the Reformation principles of justification by faith alone, the priesthood of all believers, and the primacy of the Bible as the only source of revealed truth; broadly : a Christian not of a Catholic or Eastern church

Of course there are 1000’s of variations and mutations, but if this is generally the faith tradition you find yourself in, you are Protestant, no matter what you choose to call or not call yourself.

Hope this helps! :slight_smile:


#4

[quote=Angainor]Do you also think the term “Protestant” is just a left-over label that isn’t really appropriate in this day and age?
[/quote]

No. I know mainline Protestants who have a lively awareness of their roots. For them, the name seems to make sense. But others don’t give me that impression.

By roots, I mean relative to the word “Protestant”. I’m not trying to say anything like that Protestants don’t usually know history or something like that! Just some do seem to identify somewhat with the word or its roots.


#5

[quote=Angainor]…but for the lack of a better term, you may call me Protestant.

Seriously though. Do you also think the term “Protestant” is just a left-over label that isn’t really appropriate in this day and age?
[/quote]

Well your not Catholic are you?

We have 3 basic divisions of Christiantiy Catholic, ORthodox and PRotestants? And that is 2 to many as for the most part their was one church the first millinium of Christianity.
Do you propose we have a 4th and 5th category to suit your taste.
Looks Christianity is confusing and devisive enough to add more labels to suit your lack of insight into history.

Considering you didn’t start the reformation you might have no idea what you are protesting all the more reason for you to study the reformation and the issues that divide catholics and protestants because in reality you are protesting the catholic church that Jesus started in 33AD i beg of you to read some catholic sources and get our side of the story for a change.
Catholcims is the historic Christian church and Protestantism is a completly accurate label for those who left the church and you belong to a church whose roots ultimately lead to the Protestant reformation.


#6

Dear Angainor,

You may not feel that you are “protesting” anything but if you do not accept the Catholic faith, then you are ‘protesting’ the authority of the Church. Might as well accept the label since it was considered a badge of honor by your forbears in religion. But if you don’t like the label, and you really are not protesting the Faith, then c’mon over! We’re ready with the robe, the sandals, the ring and the fatted calf!


#7

For me as a Roman Catholic, “this day and age” means the era since Jesus died and rose for our salvation.

In perspective, the last 500 years is as it was yesterday.

In any case, I’m curious. What term would you use to call all non-Catholic Christians as a group?

:o


#8

[quote=Veronica Anne]For me as a Roman Catholic, “this day and age” means the era since Jesus died and rose for our salvation.

In perspective, the last 500 years is as it was yesterday.

In any case, I’m curious. What term would you use to call all non-Catholic Christians as a group?

:o
[/quote]

Very good point regarding “this day and age”.

As to what term I would use, if you must refer to us a s a group, “non-Catholic Christians” sounds perfectly appropriate. You can feel free to include yourself in a group called “non-Lutheran Christians” if you wish.


#9

[quote=mercygate]Dear Angainor,

You may not feel that you are “protesting” anything but if you do not accept the Catholic faith, then you are ‘protesting’ the authority of the Church. Might as well accept the label since it was considered a badge of honor by your forbears in religion.
[/quote]

I suppose you are right. As long as there is a church on earth that claims it is the way, the truth, and the life, then, if I don’t accept that, I will always be seen as protesting that church’s authority.

So be it. “Protestant” it is!


#10

The author of the World Christian Encyclopedia (2 volumes, 2001), David Barrett, is an Anglican clergyman. And guess what – he divides Christendom into four groups: (Roman) Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, and Protestant, instead of the three that have been used for 487 years (since Luther).

The Anglican church is PROTESTANT. But, like Barrett, you can start your own category if you wish. But whatever you may label yourself, the rest of the world will still call you “Protestant.”

You are the outside the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that Christ founded as an extension of Himself for the salvation of the world. It is the Church that has the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth. The thousands of other ecclesiastical organizations each have only a fraction of the Truth. I suppose some Truth is better than none. But it was not enough for me.

Jay Damien
Ex-Protestant


#11

[quote=Angainor]Very good point regarding “this day and age”.

As to what term I would use, if you must refer to us a s a group, “non-Catholic Christians” sounds perfectly appropriate. You can feel free to include yourself in a group called “non-Lutheran Christians” if you wish.
[/quote]

Christianity is not defined by Lutheranism, which came 16 centuries too late and is still very much a splintered, minority denomination.

Come home. We’ll leave the light on for you.:slight_smile:

JMJ Jay


#12

[quote=Angainor]I suppose you are right. As long as there is a church on earth that claims it is the way, the truth, and the life, then, if I don’t accept that, I will always be seen as protesting that church’s authority.

So be it. “Protestant” it is!
[/quote]

As a former Protestant, I can relate very well to your position. But the Catholic Church doesn’t simply claim to be THE Church. She has the history, Tradition and charism to back it up. I came in kicking and screaming every inch of the way but, thank God, I made it. Hope you do too.


#13

[quote=mercygate]As a former Protestant, I can relate very well to your position. But the Catholic Church doesn’t simply claim to be THE Church. She has the history, Tradition and charism to back it up. I came in kicking and screaming every inch of the way but, thank God, I made it. Hope you do too.
[/quote]

The age of the institution doesn’t impress me. As long as the institution wishes to put itself between me and my salvation I want nothing to do with it. Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life…” The Pope can ex-communicate me all he wants. The Pope has no authority over my soul, Jesus does.

The Catholic Church is a human institution, and human institutions can get off track… just look at the Old Testament. The Old Testament outlines a continuous cycle of falling away and getting pulled back.

Please don’t ban me from the forum or anything. I didn’t mean to go off on an anti-Catholic rant or anything. You just got me a little worked up. I wouldn’t call myself anti-Catholic, it just isn’t for me and I wanted you to know why.


#14

[quote=Angainor]The age of the institution doesn’t impress me. As long as the institution wishes to put itself between me and my salvation I want nothing to do with it. Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life…” The Pope can ex-communicate me all he wants. The Pope has no authority over my soul, Jesus does.

The Catholic Church is a human institution, and human institutions can get off track… just look at the Old Testament. The Old Testament outlines a continuous cycle of falling away and getting pulled back.

Please don’t ban me from the forum or anything. I didn’t mean to go off on an anti-Catholic rant or anything. You just got me a little worked up. I wouldn’t call myself anti-Catholic, it just isn’t for me and I wanted you to know why.
[/quote]

Actually, there is some truth in your comment. The Catholic Church was started by a human - Jesus Christ - who was also fully God. Luthernism, however, though started by a human, cannot claim that Martin was also fully God.


#15

[quote=Angainor]The age of the institution doesn’t impress me.
[/quote]

Indeed. It is not merely the age of the Church but her continuity that is important. And not just her continuity but her Charism which is clearly delineated and promised in Scripture.

As long as the institution wishes to put itself between me and my salvation I want nothing to do with it. Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life…” The Pope can ex-communicate me all he wants. The Pope has no authority over my soul, Jesus does.

Whoa! hold the phone! Paradigm shift: the Church, the Body of Christ, is not “between” anybody and God except perhaps in the way the George Washington Bridge is between New Jersey and Manhattan. Is your church “between” you and God, or do you see it as part of how you relate to Him? For Catholics, the Church is the vehicle through which much of Christ’s promise is made flesh today.

The Catholic Church is a human institution, and human institutions can get off track… just look at the Old Testament. The Old Testament outlines a continuous cycle of falling away and getting pulled back.

How do you figure that the Church is a “human institution?” She has ‘institutional’ aspects but she is, as Scripture clearly attests, the divinely appointed instrument of God’s grace in this world and the next. Go to the home page of Catholic Answers to find a brief explanation of why Catholics believe this to be true.

Please don’t ban me from the forum or anything. I didn’t mean to go off on an anti-Catholic rant or anything. You just got me a little worked up. I wouldn’t call myself anti-Catholic, it just isn’t for me and I wanted you to know why.

I apologize if anything I wrote got you “worked up.” Looking at my post, I do not see that anything I said was in any way provocative, but I apologize nonetheless.


#16

[quote=MrS]Actually, there is some truth in your comment. The Catholic Church was started by a human - Jesus Christ - who was also fully God.
[/quote]

If you mean the catholic Chuch then I agree completely. “Catholicism” evolved sometime later.

[quote=MrS]Luthernism, however, though started by a human, cannot claim that Martin was also fully God.
[/quote]

a) I do not believe Luther was an “authority”, in the sense that what he said was true simply because he said it. If Luther shined a light on exisiting Truths, then he was a good teacher.

b) I do not believe Luther started my Church. My church is the catholic church. The catholic church is. I entered into that church with my baptism. Luther did start what we call the Lutheran Church, which is an association of members within the catholic Church with similar beliefs.


#17

For Catholics, “Catholicism” is the only way to get to heaven. There is a “back door” but access to that back door requires sincere ignorance of the fact that “Catholicism” is the only way to get to heaven.

“Catholicism” seeks to put itself between me and my salvation. “Catholicism” is a human institution because it has a human authority. What the Pope says, goes.

Protestants claim no human authority. Lutherans are bound together by creeds, or statements of faith. The creeds represent the best attempts at discerning the Truths from God’s Word. Lutherans don’t claim you need “The Lutheran Church” for salvation. The Lutheran Church represents an association of believers who agree with the creeds. If you don’t agree with those creeds, then you wouldn’t really fit into an association that does believe in those creeds.

Or so that is my understanding of the workings of Protestantism.


#18

[quote=Angainor]The age of the institution doesn’t impress me. As long as the institution wishes to put itself between me and my salvation I want nothing to do with it. Jesus said “I am the way, the truth, and the life…” The Pope can ex-communicate me all he wants. The Pope has no authority over my soul, Jesus does.

The Catholic Church is a human institution, and human institutions can get off track… just look at the Old Testament. The Old Testament outlines a continuous cycle of falling away and getting pulled back.

Please don’t ban me from the forum or anything. I didn’t mean to go off on an anti-Catholic rant or anything. You just got me a little worked up. I wouldn’t call myself anti-Catholic, it just isn’t for me and I wanted you to know why.
[/quote]

I read this and all of a sudden I felt sorry for Moses again:nope: God appointed him but look at the trouble the people gave him:crying:


#19

[quote=Angainor]. Luther did start what we call the Lutheran Church, which is an association of members within the catholic Church with similar beliefs.
[/quote]

You can’t be serious if you say that a discontented Catholic Augustian monk named Martin Luther,
who at one time professed belief in the only Christian church founded by Jesus Christain in the world
who recognized serious problems in the church which needed reform
who did not recognize serious problems within himself

defied the authority he had pledged fidality to

defied the vows he took before God

who fixated on theological inventions of his own making, and then preached his Sola’s to the world

then found his name linked to “to an association of members within the” … body of Christ, yes, the Catholic Church NO… with similar beliefs.

Sorry, that won’t even fly with most Lutherans.


#20

[quote=Angainor]For Catholics, “Catholicism” is the only way to get to heaven. There is a “back door” but access to that back door requires sincere ignorance of the fact that “Catholicism” is the only way to get to heaven.

“Catholicism” seeks to put itself between me and my salvation. “Catholicism” is a human institution because it has a human authority. What the Pope says, goes.

Protestants claim no human authority. Lutherans are bound together by creeds, or statements of faith. The creeds represent the best attempts at discerning the Truths from God’s Word. Lutherans don’t claim you need “The Lutheran Church” for salvation. The Lutheran Church represents an association of believers who agree with the creeds. If you don’t agree with those creeds, then you wouldn’t really fit into an association that does believe in those creeds.

Or so that is my understanding of the workings of Protestantism.
[/quote]

“Father forgive him, he know not of what he speaks…”

For you: Catholics teach that what Christ taught… the only way to heaven (the Father) is through the son. We are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, working in love.

As for the Pope… again Christ said He who hears you (only the Catholic Church with the Pope as the Vicar of Christ) hears Me. And He who rejects you, rejects Me and the One Who sent Me. (Luther was not listening… by his own choice.)

Yes the Creeds represent a statement of beliefs. But if yours are strictly your own, then you are your own human authority.http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon13.gif And if yours are from other men, then they are your human authority.http://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://forums.catholic.com/images/icons/icon13.gif

Thankfully, Christ knew this problem. So he gave mankind His Church with the promise that Satan would not prevail…ever. The visible Church, that is the hierarchy or magisterium (teaching Authority), safeguards the Full Deposit of Faith given to us - again by God alone - which is found in both Tradition and later with the written word… The Bible. Even Luther acknowledged that… he just did not want to submit then.

But he has now.


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