"I'm saved!"


#1

As most of you know, I’ve been to other groups debating, this and that, etc. I’ve come across many ex-Catholics and even Protestants who say with pride, “Oh, I KNOW I’m saved! The Gospel says so right in the Bible!”[size=2]unity.enya.com/images/smiles/smiles_rolleyes.gif

My question is, when they say this, is there really a passage in Scripture that says something like this and they’re taking it out of context or is it just pride?[/size][size=2]unity.enya.com/images/smiles/smiles_shock.gif

Also, I’m not an expert on Scripture obviously but I don’t think it says that we’re GUARANTEED Heaven (“saved”) or does it?

I’m not trying to sound rude or anything but all this “I’m saved!” stuff makes me sick so to speak[/size][font=Verdana, Sans Serif, Arial][size=2]unity.enya.com/images/smiles/smiles_rolleyes.gif[/size][/font][size=2]

I don’t get it, why do they say “I’m saved!”? It just doesn’t make sense.[/size][size=2]unity.enya.com/images/smiles/smiles_unsure.gif[/size]


#2

I was hoping my 1st post here would be more useful.

Paris Blues, cutting to the chase, I find some of your comments on this board to be destructive. Swinging your so-called salvation around like a steak in front of a dog only will cause more problems. If you feel you have to boast, log off the message board and type away in MS Word. There are many “non-catholics” out there who come here to learn how to heal divisions in all Christians.

Read the Bible for yourself, especially Acts 8:9-25,


#3

[quote=1Christ1Church]I was hoping my 1st post here would be more useful.

Paris Blues, cutting to the chase, I find some of your comments on this board to be destructive. Swinging your so-called salvation around like a steak in front of a dog only will cause more problems. If you feel you have to boast, log off the message board and type away in MS Word.
[/quote]

Well, I’m sorry if they sound destructive…I don’t intend for them to be or anything…I post because I’m either curious or just ask because I DON’T KNOW something. Does this offend you? If it does, I guess I’ll leave then.:crying:

There are many “non-catholics” out there who come here to learn how to heal divisions in all Christians.

Read the Bible for yourself, especially Acts 8:9-25,

I don’t understand how they come here to HEAL divisions in all Christians. I find that the opposite. When they come here (regardless of a post from mine or NOT), they attack the Catholic Faith…you call that healing? :ehh:


#4

some pertinent verses:

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus {as} Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same {Lord} is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
BH


#5

[quote=1Christ1Church]I was hoping my 1st post here would be more useful.

Paris Blues, cutting to the chase, I find some of your comments on this board to be destructive. Swinging your so-called salvation around like a steak in front of a dog only will cause more problems. If you feel you have to boast, log off the message board and type away in MS Word. There are many “non-catholics” out there who come here to learn how to heal divisions in all Christians.

Read the Bible for yourself, especially Acts 8:9-25,
[/quote]

Anyone who reads these boards knows that Paris is…excited about her faith and well…excitable…Paris is interesting…and consequently makes the boards more interesting…find something else to worry about…
BH


#6

For those that come here to “attack”, there could be a thousand times more of them that come to this board to seek the truth. Apologetics is not taken place on a battle field.


#7

[quote=1Christ1Church]I was hoping my 1st post here would be more useful.

Paris Blues, cutting to the chase, I find some of your comments on this board to be destructive. Swinging your so-called salvation around like a steak in front of a dog only will cause more problems. If you feel you have to boast, log off the message board and type away in MS Word. There are many “non-catholics” out there who come here to learn how to heal divisions in all Christians.

Read the Bible for yourself, especially Acts 8:9-25,
[/quote]

1C1C, you call Paris destructive and yet you post something like that? I never get involved in personal issues here; in fact this may be the very first time I have ever made a post of this sort. Please be more charitable when you post. Paris is simply trying to ascertain truth and to learn more. This post however is very rude and hurtful. If you really wish to unite Christ’s Church, posts like this are not the way to go about it. In fact, they will accomplish only the opposite.

People who come here may not agree with each others’ theology or beliefs. In fact many Christians differ in these areas. However, both here and in Christianity in general, we must disagree without attacking each other personally or attempting to cause pain. Most here are very charitable in this way. Please be so yourself :slight_smile:

God Bless


#8

I just wanted to point out to you guys that I DO NOT post threads to cause people angry or whatnot![font=Verdana, Sans Serif, Arial][size=2]unity.enya.com/images/smiles/smiles_afraid.gif[/size][/font]

I’M JUST CURIOUS AND NEED TO KNOW so that I can be informed, k?[font=Verdana, Sans Serif, Arial][size=2][’)"]http://unity.enya.com/images/smiles/icon_smile_wink.gif]("javascript:insertsmilie(’[;))[/size][/font]


#9

[quote=Paris Blues]I just wanted to point out to you guys that I DO NOT post threads to cause people angry or whatnot![font=Verdana, Sans Serif, Arial][size=2]unity.enya.com/images/smiles/smiles_afraid.gif[/size][/font]

I’M JUST CURIOUS AND NEED TO KNOW so that I can be informed, k?[font=Verdana, Sans Serif, Arial][size=2][’)"]http://unity.enya.com/images/smiles/icon_smile_wink.gif]("javascript:insertsmilie(’[;))[/size][/font]
[/quote]

Sorry If I upset you. Case Closed


#10

I had already put this up as another thread. Let’s use this one. Perhaps the mods can close the other thread.

I will begin by addressing

Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same {Lord} is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
Rom 10:13 for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”

This would seem to contradict Jesus’ statement that "Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

Does it? It does if you take the statement in Romans to be an absolute. However, if calling on the name of the Lord is one of a group of things you must do to be saved, then there is no problem here. It would mean that Not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, but those who do that and the other things will be. In fact this is just what Christ says: those who call on Him and do the will of the Father will be saved.

The Bible provides a long list of ways to be saved:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)?

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)?

By baptism (Jn 3:5; Acts 2:38; 22:16; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)?

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)?

By declaring with our mouths (Lu 12:8; Rom 10:9)?

By coming to a knowledge of the Truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)?

By works (Rom 2:6, 7; James 2:21, 24-25)?

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)?

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)?

By His righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)?

By His cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)?

“Can we cut any one of these out of the list and proclaim it alone as the means of salvation? Can we be saved without faith? without God’s grace? without repentance? without baptism? without the Spirit? These are all involved and necessary; not one of them can be dismissed as a means of obtaining eternal life. Neither can one be emphasized to the exclusion of another. They are all involved in salvation and entry into the Church. The Catholic Church does not divide these various elements of salvation up, overemphasizing some while ignoring others; rather she holds them all in their fullness“

(From Steve Ray’s Crossing the Tiber)

In other words, this is the BIble’s list of “how you get saved.” You can’t simply take one of these things (like calling on the name of the Lord) and say that that is all you need. The Bible says that you must do each of these things. To exclude all but one is to ignore Scripture.

As for places where the Bible says taht you are not once saved always saved, I will post again soon.


#11

Dont know about scripture that supports it, but here is a verse that condemns ‘Faith Alone’

You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. (James 2. 24)

Only part of the Bible where you will read the words Faith and alone in the same sentence. And it condemns it :eek:


#12

[quote=1Christ1Church]Sorry If I upset you. Case Closed
[/quote]

PEACE![font=Verdana, Sans Serif, Arial][size=2][’)"]http://unity.enya.com/images/smiles/icon_smile_approve.gif]("javascript:insertsmilie(’[^)[/size][/font]


#13

So does the Bible say that we can lose our salvation?

Well, Jesus tells us that it can happen:

Rev 3:14 "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: 'The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God’s creation.
Rev 3:15 "'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot!
Rev 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

St. Paul also warns us:

Rom 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18 do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.
Rom 11:19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
Rom 11:22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

The tree is the tree of life, of salvation. The Jews represent the naturl branches that God cut off. The grafted on branches are the gentiles. Note that verse 22 very clearly says that these gentiles can be cut off again. If a person does not continue in God’s kindness, he can lose his salvation.

1Co 9:24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it.
1Co 9:25 Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.
1Co 9:26 So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air.
1Co 9:27 But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.

Here St. Paul exhorts his readers to live their Christian lives well. He says at the very end that even he can lose his salvation. If St. Paul can lose his salvation, I can too.

Here’s my favorite:

Phi 3:8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
Phi 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith–
Phi 3:10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Phi 3:11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
Phi 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
Phi 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
Phi 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Phi 3:15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.

In verse 11, St. Paul says that he hopes to somehow attain salvation. In verse 12, he very explicitly says he has not already attained salvation. In verse 15he says that this is how mature Christians think, and indicates that if anyone thinks otherwise they are immature and still need to learn it, but says that God will reveal it to them.

There are more, but this is a sample. :cool:


#14

[quote=BrianH]some pertinent verses:
[/quote]

The following is from an article on Catholic Answers:

Fundamentalists ask, “Have you been saved?”–a question which conceives of salvation as a past event. While Scripture does sometimes speak of salvation as a past event (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5, 8, 2 Tim. 1:9, Titus 3:5), or as a present process (Phil. 2:12, 1 Pet. 1:9), it most often speaks of it as a future event:

" [A]nd you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved" (Matt. 10:22).

“For whoever would save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospel’s will save it” (Mark 8:3-5).

“But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will” (Acts 15:11).

“Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life” (Rom. 5:9-10).

“Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed” (Rom. 13:11).

“If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor. 3:15).

“[Y]ou are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus” (1 Cor. 5:5)


#15

This is exactly the problem we have with our Protestant brethren. They refuse to take into account the precise “instructions” Christ instituted in His Church in order to be “saved”.

Protestants tend to “leap over” passages which are blatantly Catholic and to which prove that we have to follow all that He instituted to be saved; not just claim to “be saved”.

One of the most incredible passages with Protestants refuse to acknowledge is this one; which proves Jesus instituted the Sacrament of Confession that we may be absolved from sins by His priests:

**21: Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”

22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

23: If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.**

Do they not see it? Do they not see it?

Here’s another interesting little passage that contradicts the Protestant belief - since many of them do not believe they need baptism…

1 Peter 3:21: Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,…

The claiming of being “saved” is simply a deception and sadly will keep many souls from obtaining salvation.


#16

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