Not just on Non-Catholic Religions, but what feels like every single board people are saying how all muslims are violent people who want to take over the world. Get a freaking grip. Everyone should just admit right here they hardly know anything about Islam apart from what they hear on the news about the latest body count from the Middle East. There are muslim terrorists and there is brutal sectarianism. Christians too have done these things in the past. Does that justify it? No but it should tell you something: that there are good and bad people of all faiths. Do you not know that there are many Muslims who despise all of this stuff? Probably not, most of you guys would likely rank them along with Santa Claus and Bigfoot.
Father James Schall, SJ is no spring chicken. Neither is he an alarmist. But his thoughts about Islamist political intentions in his latest article in Crisis magazine do provide some food for thought.
Untrue. I happen to have lived in several Islamic countries. Some of my relatives are Muslims. Others are not and have been part of a Christian minority oppressed by Muslims for centuries.
Have you lived in Islamic countries on the side of the dhimmis? Have your relatives been oppressed in the name of the Islamic Allah?
Do you think this Saudi cleric does not understand Islam when he said that Allah wants Islam to rule the world?
Perhaps you know Islam better than Sheik Muhammad Al-Munajid.
I’m sure you know the wishes of the Islamic Allah better than Muhammad.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah’s Apostle said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.”
Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 196:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"
Sunan Abu Dawud Book 14, Number 2635:
Narrated Anas ibn Malik:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: I am commanded to fight with men till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is His servant and His Apostle, face our qiblah (direction of prayer), eat what we slaughter, and pray like us. When they do that, their life and property are unlawful for us except what is due to them. They will have the same rights as the Muslims have, and have the same responsibilities as the Muslims have.
I guess Muhammad was wrong then and you are right. We non-Muslims have nothing to fear. The Islamic Allah does not wish to subjugate and persecute disbelievers despite what the Muslims say and despite what Muhammad himself said.
Phew - for a second - I almost believed I was irrational in fearing Islam.
Not every Moslem is violent and it is certainly absurd to imply otherwise.
However, anyone that is not aware of the brute violence used in trying to convert people or keep people from converting, not to mention the suicide bombing, destruction, violence to supress independent thought and women… is niave. :eek: The Pope (Benedict) was absolutely correct and the moderate Muslims need to bring these other forces under control.
Radical elements in Islam seek to get their way through intimidation and violence. Women stoned to death in Saudi Arabia for riding in cars with a man they are not married to, women murdered by Taliban in Afghanistan for all sorts of minor offenses (while vendors sell snacks in the stadium), banned from practicing medicene, etc. Beheadings, behandings, murder for beliefs, etc. Radical Islam is ignorant, brutal and anti civilization. It is horrible and comes across as muder incorporated. Again, Benedict XVI is correct. Moderate Muslims need to band together and suppress this so that they can get their message out there.
Yes Christianity has done some not so nice things but this is 2007 and not 1597. Who would want to live under the hellish world created by radical Islam in Afghanistan and elsewhere.
I could take every negative thing that is said about Islam and apply to America. People in glass houses…
Every negative thing? Well let’s see: Muslims can build Mosques in the United States. Catholics can’t build churches in Saudi Arabia.
Some of us know Islam because we have read the Qur’an and the Hadiths and placed it into the context of the life of their beloved so-called messenger, Muhammed. Have you, Generic Man?
Not all of us are ignorant. Some of us have researched Islam and we still find no truth within it.
Guys, I’m not saying that there aren’t any problems in the Muslim world. I’m saying that the muslim guy two houses down is actually not trying to blow your place up. Distorting my words will get this thread nowhere.
I was being slightly rhetorical. By all I meant most.
Exactly…in America just because your sister went to work today or road home in a car with a man she is not married to we do not murder her. We do not chase your sister down and kill her because she refused to go through with an arranged marriage so she insulted our family. Because you decide to check out a Baptist Church your are not executed or beaten and imprisoned for the rest of your life. We don’t beat your mother for uncovering her face. All these elements are present in countries run by radical Islam. It is so niave and simplistic to suggest radical Islam does not pose a major threat to civil liberites and ideas we hold dear. This is what the Dutch confronted in the Netherlands with the murder of that producer or the violent and stupid reaction to that cartoon of the prophet Mohammed.
Again, that is why Benedicts statement was on target and a good appeal to moderate Muslims. I was so proud of the Holy Father for having the courage to say what he did. It was a refreshing change from the Politically Correct…“The terrorists just don’t know how to express their anger at the injustice of the West so they have to blow up innocent people”. There have been several reports from Britian of home grown radicalized youth who wish to harm or at least sympathize with the brutality of radical Islam. We have to address this issue through education and so on. That is NOT implying that your Muslim neighbor is going to blow you up.:doh2:
Dear Generic Man,
I’d like to ask you a couple of questions; Do you know what Jihad is? Do you know what a muslim’s responsibility is towards Jihad?
Although I’m worried, I certainly don’t hate them.
But they do concern me.
What the heck, I never said that extremism isn’t a threat, stop stuffing words down my throat. I’m saying to quit the excessive fearmongering and prejudice.
So now you’re insinuating that all muslims are terrorists…
It depends on where you live, doesn’t it? Of course the Muslims in Western secular countries have to abide by Western secular laws and behave themselves or else they get hauled into jail.
But if you live in an Islamic country, the chances are that the Muslims living in your street are oppressing you and your children by supporting the oppressive laws.
Do you think the Saudi Arab Muslims disagree with the ban on churches in Saudi Arabia?
Do you think the Egyptian Muslims disagree that the Copts ought not repair their churches?
Do you think the Pakistani Muslims disagree that all Christians should be either run out of Pakistan or forced to convert to Islam?
Do you think there are many Muslims in Islamic countries think Muslims can apostatize from Islam and convert to Christianity?
I’m afraid to tell you that the Muslims in Islamic countries condone and support the anti-kafir laws and practices.
Don’t be foolish. I wasn’t answering the questions.
I was asking you the questions. But if you don’t want to answer them then I’ll assume that you’re the one who doesn’t know anything about Islam.
A summuary of this thread:
I suggest the thought that Islam is not responsible for every single bad event in history and I get smothered with straw men and “When did you stop beating your wife”-esque scenarios
That’s Saudi Arabia not Islam. To make a foolish statement like that you would have to ignore the freedom of religion that exists in Syria, Iran, Lebanon, The United Arab Emirates, Indonesia…and the VAST majority of Islamic countries
Here’s an interesting thought; What do you think the average Saudi Arabian thinks of Osama Bin Laden?
Hint: edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/08/poll.binladen/ (taken in 2004)
You’re tyring to justify prejudice, which is intrinsically evil no matter what.
Stop sowing seeds of hatred and paranoia, you are doing no good.
In trying to accuse others of creating straw man arguments you inadvertently created one yourself with this doozie of a straw man:
I suggest the thought that Islam is not responsible for every single bad event in history.
That is one HUGE straw man, buddy.