I'm starting to hate democracy. Is this wrong?


#1

Democracy is such a terrible form of government. I feel that it just allows for mob rule and we end up with rules that go against the church. Its sad because I pride myself on being an american and having a good form of government, but after last night i'm just sick. I hate living in a democracy. I wish we lived in a place where the church was the law and the law was the church, or something like that.


#2

Read the "City of God" by St Augustine.

You will feel better.

It's important to not make our country, our form of government or any form of government, a god.

It's important not to make "winning" a god.

God and God alone is Our God.

Not our politics and who holds the White House. :)


#3

Is not wrong to dislike democracy.

Blessings! :)


#4

As a friend reminded me this morning.
It was a Democratic vote that choose
Barabbas over Jesus.


#5

[quote="preisinger, post:4, topic:304423"]
As a friend reminded me this morning.
It was a Democratic vote that choose
Barabbas over Jesus.

[/quote]

So you think the founding fathers did a bad job? That they werent inspired? :confused:


#6

[quote="benjammin, post:1, topic:304423"]
I wish we lived in a place where the church was the law and the law was the church, or something like that.

[/quote]

Your disappointment is both normal and natural, and so is your desire for a better world/country; however, for the latter desire to be realised, we must remember what "the law" is for Christians: it is chiefly the grace of the Holy Spirit, without which any law is dead letter. Saint Thomas explains:

The New Law is the law of the New Testament. But the law of the New Testament is instilled in our hearts. For the Apostle, quoting the authority of Jeremias 31:31,33: "Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord; and I will perfect unto the house of Israel, and unto the house of Judah, a new testament," says, explaining what this statement is (Heb. 8:8,10): "For this is the testament which I will make to the house of Israel . . . by giving [Vulg.: 'I will give'] My laws into their mind, and in their heart will I write them." Therefore the New Law is instilled in our hearts.

I answer that, "Each thing appears to be that which preponderates in it," as the Philosopher states (Ethic. ix, 8). Now that which is preponderant in the law of the New Testament, and whereon all its efficacy is based, is the grace of the Holy Ghost, which is given through faith in Christ. Consequently the New Law is chiefly the grace itself of the Holy Ghost, which is given to those who believe in Christ. This is manifestly stated by the Apostle who says (Rm. 3:27): "Where is . . . thy boasting? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith": for he calls the grace itself of faith "a law." And still more clearly it is written (Rm. 8:2): "The law of the spirit of life, in Christ Jesus, hath delivered me from the law of sin and of death." Hence Augustine says (De Spir. et Lit. xxiv) that "as the law of deeds was written on tables of stone, so is the law of faith inscribed on the hearts of the faithful": and elsewhere, in the same book (xxi): "What else are the Divine laws written by God Himself on our hearts, but the very presence of His Holy Spirit?"

Nevertheless the New Law contains certain things that dispose us to receive the grace of the Holy Ghost, and pertaining to the use of that grace: such things are of secondary importance, so to speak, in the New Law; and the faithful need to be instructed concerning them, both by word and writing, both as to what they should believe and as to what they should do. Consequently we must say that the New Law is in the first place a law that is inscribed on our hearts, but that secondarily it is a written law.

Even a society organized on Christian principles in its laws and government can become woefully arbitrary, tyrannical, corrupt or perverted if the grace of the Holy Spirit is not what is ultimately animating it. Moreover, irrespective of even the form of government, this same grace can truly liberate a society and fill it with God's love and peace: Jonah's preaching liberated a city and installed an entirely new regime without one person being killed or even a single person losing their job in government: the grace of God entered their hearts and from then on the regime of grace ruled as opposed to the regime of sin. Hence, Christians can be found throughout history organized in absolute monarchies to republics and, yes, even democracies.


#7

[quote="benjammin, post:1, topic:304423"]
Democracy is such a terrible form of government. I feel that it just allows for mob rule and we end up with rules that go against the church. Its sad because I pride myself on being an american and having a good form of government, but after last night i'm just sick. I hate living in a democracy. I wish we lived in a place where the church was the law and the law was the church, or something like that.

[/quote]

You're not alone, just read what the Founding Fathers thought of Democracy and you will see you're not alone. The FF were never for the level of Democracy we have today.


#8

Well articulated.

A change of the prism that we look thru at the lost is healthy.

Thanks for sharing.


#9

[quote="benjammin, post:1, topic:304423"]
Democracy is such a terrible form of government. I feel that it just allows for mob rule and we end up with rules that go against the church. Its sad because I pride myself on being an american and having a good form of government, but after last night i'm just sick. I hate living in a democracy. I wish we lived in a place where the church was the law and the law was the church, or something like that.

[/quote]

If you think democracy is bad try the alternative.


#10

It's okay not to "like" democracy. It's not perfect, even if it's better than many alternatives. After all, democracy is what chose Barrabas over Jesus.


#11

I actually don't want a theocracy. I don't care if I'd be the state religion or not, to me theocracies always risk extremism. That aside, I will admit I don't quite like the American system right now. We need to get back to bipartisanship not hyperpartisanship. We should be trying to work together across party lines, not being at each other's throats every four years. Also, I don't want to abolish the electoral college, but I do think more states should use the Maine system


#12

[quote="benjammin, post:1, topic:304423"]
Democracy is such a terrible form of government. I feel that it just allows for mob rule and we end up with rules that go against the church. Its sad because I pride myself on being an american and having a good form of government, but after last night i'm just sick. I hate living in a democracy. I wish we lived in a place where the church was the law and the law was the church, or something like that.

[/quote]

The USA is a Republic..not a democracy. ..big difference. Whatever the difference is.. as predicted long ago..when voters discover that they can vote for money for themselves..it is over.:shrug:


#13

[quote="benjammin, post:1, topic:304423"]
Democracy is such a terrible form of government. I feel that it just allows for mob rule and we end up with rules that go against the church. Its sad because I pride myself on being an american and having a good form of government, but after last night i'm just sick. I hate living in a democracy. I wish we lived in a place where the church was the law and the law was the church, or something like that.

[/quote]

I feel your pain.:(


#14

[quote="Marie5890, post:2, topic:304423"]
Read the "City of God" by St Augustine.

You will feel better.

It's important to not make our country, our form of government or any form of government, a god.

It's important not to make "winning" a god.

God and God alone is Our God.

Not our politics and who holds the White House. :)

[/quote]

amen!


#15

Be honest-would you be saying the same thing if the election outcome had been different? How much of this is "my guy lost and I'm mad now"?


#16

[quote="Marie5890, post:5, topic:304423"]
So you think the founding fathers did a bad job? That they werent inspired? :confused:

[/quote]

Inspiration is irrelevant since they weren't founding a religion.

When Benjamin Franklin was asked what kind of government was established, he responded, "A Republic, if you can keep it."

It seems we didn't.


#17

[quote="benjammin, post:1, topic:304423"]
I wish we lived in a place where the church was the law and the law was the church, or something like that.

[/quote]

I believe there are several Muslim countries that are like this...


#18

[quote="Myqyl, post:17, topic:304423"]
I believe there are several Muslim countries that are like this...

[/quote]

Good point...

IE Sharia law


#19

[quote="benjammin, post:1, topic:304423"]
Democracy is such a terrible form of government. I feel that it just allows for mob rule and we end up with rules that go against the church. Its sad because I pride myself on being an american and having a good form of government, but after last night i'm just sick. I hate living in a democracy. I wish we lived in a place where the church was the law and the law was the church, or something like that.

[/quote]

Remember what Christ said about the Kingdom of God. It's here, now.

Remember how the Apostles lived in persecution. The proclamation of Stephen that lead to his stoning in Acts 7 is a good model for Christians confronting power.

Remember the advice of St. Paul to the Christians throughout the Mediterranean. Live a life with Christ as Lord.

Keep in mind that we have plenty of instances in history where the law was the church, and it never, never, never worked. Cesare Borgia -- son of a pope, a prince of the church, head of the papal armies. Francisco Franco -- and his concordat. The Austro-Hungarian Empire -- and its engorgement of elites at the behest of the poor. Byzantine Emperors could dictate theology -- sometimes to popes -- yet it didn't free them of graft.

In our own country, when the law did things we supposedly liked, it didn't work. For example, in the mid-1960s, when every state outlawed abortion except to save the life of the mother, studies estimated that the annual incidence of abortion was between 250,000-1,000,000 (internationally, the abortion rate in many Latin American countries exceeds that of the U.S., despite abortion being generally illegal there). Guns now are heavily regulated, yet gun violence claims thousands of lives a year in the U.S. Drugs are illegal, yet addicts and dealers abound.

I truly believe that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others. Politicians are addicted to power, and will usually do anything to hold on to it... that's true world-wide. Democracy just means that politicians have to pander to a larger base of supporters.

But I also believe that government is not the only way to effect change: never has been, never will be. Like St. Stephen and St. Paul, Christians work best when we don't effect change by forcing other people to do what we think they should... we get addicted to power. Christians should speak to power, hold the mirror to the powerful, and act for change in the world.

We must do more than vote to create the Kingdom of God. To quote a secular writer, Henry David Thoreau (with "the right" meaning good, not conservative): "Even voting for the right is doing nothing for it. It is only expressing to men feebly your desire that it should prevail. A wise man will not leave the right to the mercy of chance, nor wish it to prevail through the power of the majority. There is but little virtue in the action of masses of men."


#20

Franklin also said "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep discussing what is for dinner."

We don't have a "democracy" (or a republic) what we have in practice is a fascist oligarchy with a thin veneer of representative democracy to give it a bit of respectability.
It makes no difference who sits in the White House, whoever it may be does exactly as they are told by the powers behind the scenes.

I'm waiting for the Return of the King. King Jesus that is.


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