Im writing this in hopes we can live together as a unified body of God

Religions are something that we use to seperate ourselves from one another but thats not the plan. Jesus wanted us to unite together against the devils tricks. So irregardless of what someones’ beliefs are, as long as we all have Jesus christ as our savior, we believe the same thing. Everyone’s interpretation of scripture will be different, but we must look past the words and see the message, which is everyone has sinned, everyone, and God sent his son to redem us. We all need a savior and the blood of Jesus Christ gives us salvation, nothing else. I know the bible says do not argue about differences in “religions” (paraphrased ofcourse), it also never, not once shows Jesus arguing over beliefs, he may ask questions but he never slang mud or committed the sin of slander. We must also remember that Jesus came to save us, all of us, he made us in his image and loves us individually, the bible says he knows the number of hairs on our heads. I also believe that when we get into Heaven Jesus will stand next to us and tell our father that he knows us, not because of what church we belong to or what religion we call ourselves, but because we confessed that Jesus is our savior and believed it in our hearts. So let us not hate each other or spend our time folishly arguing over whether of not we should or shouldn’t do something but lets share what we have in common and worship together and help each other grow and do what the Bible says to do and that is to encourage each other and as Jesus said, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind!!!
And remember God loves everyone and that is what we should do if we want to be considered children of God. Let us take up our crosses and be deciples of Christ together because if there not against us they’re with us.

God is the truth itself. God is in Jesus Christ, for He is true God and true Man, the Son of God Incarnate. Jesus founded one Church and she has one Faith. Every other religion has a flame of God, but only the Church has the entire furnance. Or, to put it another way, every other religion is around the Temple, but only the Church is the Temple of the Lord. And because the Church has the fullness of the truth in Jesus, all men are called to join her, she who is the Body of Christ, that all might be a unified Body of the Lord.

Amen! I couldn’t agree more! There is one true religion and that is Christianity! Now what? How do we get others onboard?

There is no such thing as “non-denominational”.

It might be a “denomination” of just one congregation, or even just one person.

But most likely such will be found to fit quite nicely in one of the already existing denominations.

I strongly disagree with this premise.

Jesus wanted us to unite together against the devils tricks.

Okay.

So irregardless of what someones’ beliefs are, as long as we all have Jesus christ as our savior, we believe the same thing.

Not so sure about this, thanks to the existence of various non-Christian groups that claim to believe this, but in reality hold to a very unorthodox doctrine regarding Christ, salvation, etc.

Everyone’s interpretation of scripture will be different, but we must look past the words and see the message

And how are we to do this without subscribing to a particular interpretation that necessarily contradicts other interpretations?

which is everyone has sinned, everyone, and God sent his son to redem us. We all need a savior and the blood of Jesus Christ gives us salvation, nothing else.

This is good.

I know the bible says do not argue about differences in “religions” (paraphrased ofcourse)

Maybe it does say that (I don’t know what verses you’re thinking of), but there are plenty of places where there is also gentle or fiery correction given to the people of the Church. Just look at the Pauline Epistles, for instance. Galatians 6-9 is a good example:

[quote=St. Paul]I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
[/quote]

Strong, direct words, as they should be,

So let us not hate each other or spend our time folishly arguing over whether of not we should or shouldn’t do something

The Church Fathers who presided over the councils of early Christianity did not find such arguments “foolish”, and neither do I. They gave us the Creeds which affirm our central beliefs and guard them from heresy, established correct Christology, etc. These things are immensely important. I’m discouraged that you do not see that, and it makes me doubt the efficacy of whatever type of “unity” you’re thinking of.

but lets share what we have in common

Sure.

and worship together

No.

and help each other grow and do what the Bible says to do and that is to encourage each other and as Jesus said, love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind!!!
And remember God loves everyone and that is what we should do if we want to be considered children of God. Let us take up our crosses and be deciples of Christ together because if there not against us they’re with us.

These are all very nice thoughts and I like most of them, but there are some major and obvious problems with this approach. It is at the heart of a false spirit of ecumenism that reduces Christianity to meaningless platitudes for no real reason. It does not bring people to Christ, and so it does not save souls. So I am ultimately against it.

Say what you will about the division of world Christianity, tragic as it is, but as long as it is sustained on a doctrinal basis it will not be foolish, because doctrine is not foolish. True unity is the hardest work I can think of, and I can’t help but think that Jesus Himself also recognized the difficulty of the task before us in John 17:21. Why dishonor the seriousness of achieving TRUE unity by falsely claiming that it doesn’t matter what you believe?

And I agree with Cluny. “Non-denominational” is just Christianese for “unaffiliated Protestant”.

Does that mean you are considering enrolling in RCIA and coming into the Church? Please unite together with the Church.

Remember when Jesus said, “not everyone who calls out Lord, Lord, will enter Heaven” , what do you think that He was talking about?

How does one look past (or set aside) the written words of the Bible and still walk away with a message? I would suggest that the “message” must in fact be interpreted. Now, the only question left should be who/what is qualified to interpret the Bible. I, myself, would argue, who better than the very same Church that compiled the Canon… the only Christian Church that has been around for the 2000 years since Jesus walked the Earth. The same Church that will be in place should the world still exist 2000 years from today… the Catholic Church.

Please understand that arguing for Truth is not the same thing as the sin of slander or slinging mud. They cannot all be lumped together as they are not the same. Jesus did in fact speak the Truth always. In the synagogues, on the streets, in peoples homes, while standing on hillsides. It was because of this, that He was hated by the Pharisees and Sadducees and in the end it was why He was crucified… because He didn’t agree with what was being taught and preached. And… I would draw your attention to St. Paul. His letters are FULL of corrections to the surrounding Churches. Why? because they were NOT doing it right.

Well, see there’s a problem… We are Catholics and we know and understand that the Bible is not the only source for God’s Truth. We have Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium as well. For you to suggest that we look ONLY to the Bible would be like me telling you to ignore 2/3s of Scripture. See, if we ignore 2 out of 3 of our sources it’s just plain silly. As for hating each other… that’s a non-issue since we don’t hate you. You are, in fact a brother or sister in Christ. You simply do not recognize what house the rest of the family is in. Finally, we do love God with our entire heart, soul, and mind.

Then join us. God bless.

I agree…which is why, once we have discovered our common beliefs, my hope is for you to earn for The Eucharist…and then be willing to enter into the FULLNESS of Christianity.

WELCOME!!!

I don’t really think you guys are understanding the message i’m trying to spread, so allow me to break it down for you guys and go ahead and look it up in your Bilbe before you repost. Look up Titus 3:9-11, Also look up Revelation 21:18&19, Deut. 4:2, Deut. 12:32, Proverbs 30:5-6. And we must also remember that Jesus always was, is and is to come. He was never created in the Spirit form, born yes, but his Spirit was never concieved in any woman. He is apart of the Holy Trinity, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. No one else, not Peter, John or Mary. Although they were chosen for Great things, they are still Human and as the Word of God says, all have sinned. Romans 3:23. Again in Luke 18:19 if you will read that as well. I say this because The Bible is the only Word of God that we have and is God-Breathed, 2Timothty 3:16. If you choose to believe what has been reformed and changed over the years ( indulgences, funerals for suicide victims) you must understand that the Bible as not changed except for what was added at the Council of Trent. And it was only changed because the same “religion” that wrote doctrine and changed it also rewrote their Bible and changed it as well. On that if you writers would read James 4:7 it addresses who can give laws and Matthew 23:9, then try and understand why what you are taught and what the Word says is different, is the Bible wrong? As far as being non-denominational, It is a denomination, but it includes every christian that loves Jesus Christ, I personally consider myseld a christian but most people, unfortunatly don’t recognize that as a religion but what they don’t understand is that being a christian is a life style, Faith. However, regardless of the coments expressed i still see Catholics at my non-denominational Church, as well as Baptists, Lutherns, Methodists and anyone else who loves God and that my Friends is United Body of God, but do not misunderstand me, It is through God’s glory that this is possible. Finally to the writer who said no to a united worship, please read 1Timothy 2:8 and after you do i ask this simple question, In Heaven will we be segregated by our own man made religions? or will we serve and worship togeter?

God bless and remember Jesus came to Save us, not a religion, so be happy and Glorify his name.

Christian unity is only possible in the Catholic Church through divine guidance and hierarchy.

Wow this post is so dramatically different than your original post. It went from:

To condemnations of beliefs that you believe don’t fall in line with the Bible :shrug:

God bless you

This struck me as well.

bstrong from your post I wondered if you believe Jesus is also human?

, so allow me to break it down for you guys and go ahead and look it up in your Bilbe before you repost. Look up Titus 3:9-11, Also look up Revelation 21:18&19, Deut. 4:2, Deut. 12:32, Proverbs 30:5-6. And we must also remember that Jesus always was, is and is to come. He was never created in the Spirit form, born yes, but his Spirit was never concieved in any woman. He is apart of the Holy Trinity, God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. No one else, not Peter, John or Mary. Although they were chosen for Great things, they are still Human and as the Word of God says, all have sinned. Romans 3:23. Again in Luke 18:19 if you will read that as well. I say this because The Bible is the only Word of God that we have and is God-Breathed, 2Timothty 3:16.

Hold it right there pal.

  1. The Church existed before the New Testament. That is a historical fact.
  2. What authority do you have to interpret Scripture? You didn’t write it, you didn’t canonize, you’re not an Apostle. So, where is your authority coming from? And if you say the Holy Spirit, I’m going to say either you’re wrong or all those other “denominations” (where is that idea in Scripture?) and self-proclaimed experts and apostles are wrong.
  3. You must really lack knowledge of Catholicism if you think that we see St. Peter, St. John or the Virgin Mary as part of the Holy Trinity. And by the way, where is the words ‘Trinity’ in Scripture? DING DING DING! You got that from the Church, specifically the various Ecumenical Councils.
  4. If you’re going to try and quote and paraphrase, at least do it well. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that all of Scripture is God-breathed, but it never states only Scripture.

If you choose to believe what has been reformed and changed over the years ( indulgences, funerals for suicide victims) you must understand that the Bible as not changed except for what was added at the Council of Trent. And it was only changed because the same “religion” that wrote doctrine and changed it also rewrote their Bible and changed it as well.

You really need to learn the difference between doctrine and discipline. By the way, one sees in the Book of Acts with the both the implementation of the office of Deacon by the Church (nowhere in the OT or Jesus’ words do we find the diaconate mentioned, but the Apostles, using their authority, created the office) and the Council of Jerusalem (which determined that a person does not need to be first Jewish in order to be Christian), we see the Church determining its rules. The issue of funerals for suicide victims is a matter of discipline, not doctrine. And now you bring out the old Council of Trent added books to the Bible argument which fails on numerous levels.

  1. If the Council of Trent added books to the Bible, then why did Martin Luther, writing before the Council of Trent, discuss moving said books (the Apocrypha as it is commonly called) from its current position to the back as an appendix in his version of Scripture?
  2. Also, there is historical evidence that hundreds of years prior to Trent, those books were deemed part of the Canon of Scripture. Let’s have a look see shall we:

[quote=Council of Rome, 382 AD]Now indeed we must treat of the divine scriptures, what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she ought to shun. The order of the Old Testament begins here: Genesis, one book; Exodus, one book; Leviticus, one book; Numbers, one book; Deuteronomy, one book; Joshua [Son of] Nave, one book; Judges, one book; Ruth, one book; Kings, four books [that is, 1 and 2 Samuel and 1 and 2 Kings]; Paralipomenon [Chronicles], two books; Psalms, one book; Solomon, three books: Proverbs, one book, Ecclesiastes, one book, [and] Canticle of Canticles [Song of Songs], one book; likewise Wisdom, one book; Ecclesiasticus [Sirach], one book . . . . Likewise the order of the historical [books]: Job, one book; Tobit, one book; Esdras, two books [Ezra and Nehemiah]; Esther, one book; Judith, one book; Maccabees, two books
[/quote]

[quote=Council of Hippo, 393 AD][It has been decided] that besides the canonical scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture. But the canonical scriptures are as follows: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua the Son of Nun, Judges, Ruth, the Kings, four books, the Chronicles, two books, Job, the Psalter, the five books of Solomon [Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Wisdom, and a portion of the Psalms], the twelve books of the prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, Ezra, two books, Maccabees, two books . . .
[/quote]

[quote=2nd Council of Carthage, 397 AD][It has been decided] that nothing except the canonical scriptures should be read in the Church under the name of the divine scriptures. But the canonical scriptures are: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, Paralipomenon, two books, Job, the Psalter of David, five books of Solomon, twelve books of the prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees . . .
[/quote]

Do you want some more Pre-Trenten quotes or are you willing to retract your statement?

On that if you writers would read James 4:7 it addresses who can give laws and Matthew 23:9, then try and understand why what you are taught and what the Word says is different, is the Bible wrong? As far as being non-denominational, It is a denomination, but it includes every christian that loves Jesus Christ,

No, the Bible is not wrong, but your interpretation probably is. Again, where does your authority come from?

However, regardless of the coments expressed i still see Catholics at my non-denominational Church, as well as Baptists, Lutherns, Methodists and anyone else who loves God and that my Friends is United Body of God, but do not misunderstand me, It is through God’s glory that this is possible.

Well that is mighty generous of you. I mean, deigning to include us evil and pagan Catholics as part of the Church. My my, ain’t that sweet? It is interesting that you say that Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists are all part of the united body of God. That’s like saying the USA and CSA were actually united during the American Civil War. Please note that all the groups you listed hold different views on theology, including in key areas such as Soteriology (Salvation). By the way, where in Scripture does it say we can all hold whatever belief suits our fancy? It doesn’t. There is One Truth and there is One Church, not thousands of ‘truths’ and a divided church of a bunch of man-made “denominations”.

Finally to the writer who said no to a united worship, please read 1Timothy 2:8 and after you do i ask this simple question, In Heaven will we be segregated by our own man made religions? or will we serve and worship togeter?

You are correct that Heaven will not be segregated. The only religion in Heaven will be Catholic. Those who were not Catholic during their earthly life but, by God’s grace (note that we all, whether Catholic or not, need God’s grace), make it into Heaven will have plenty of time to learn about Catholicism during their stay in Purgatory. :slight_smile:

Also, the Catholic Church is not man-made, but Son of Man-made. All other ecclesial communities are man-made though (Luther founded Lutheranism, Calvin founded Calvinism, John Knox founded Presbyterianism, Henry VIII [along with the Archbishop of Canterbury] founded Anglicanism, Fox founded the Quakers…and the list goes on).

God bless and remember Jesus came to Save us, not a religion, so be happy and Glorify his name.

Two things would make me happier:

  1. Actually research your claims before you make them
  2. I want to introduce to Mr. Paragraph. He will aide you on your quest…

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

As I suspected… you’re just another one of those misguided Protestants who feel it is their personal task to bad-mouth the Catholic Church in the hope that weaker Catholics might fall for your misguided lies. How boring… It only took 2 posts for your true colors to surface… you must be new at this sort of thing as I have seen most of your kind last at least 5 posts before taking off their sheep’s clothing.

I must ask, are you still in school? I ask not to insult you but in order to understand how it is that you know so very little about Christian history. I’d attempt to explain to you the actual history of how the Bible came to be, but you wouldn’t believe me, so I’ll save myself the trouble. You may want to look it up some time however. It’s very interesting.

Yes. And I wish they could come up with some new and better arguments. I mean, how many times have these same tired old issues (i.e. canonization of Scripture, Church authority, etc.) been hashed and re-hashed on other threads.

You know, I am waiting for the day when some Protestant will disprove the Catholic Church. After all, then I’ll never have to go to Confession and I can just do whatever I want and believe whatever I want since Scripture can be easily argued to support any old idea.

And Protestants have to watch when they study Church history…otherwise they could falling victim to the same calamity that befell me: they’ll become Catholic. :extrahappy::extrahappy::extrahappy:

Well those are some nice things, but lets not forget that Luther died before the Pope cannonized the books, they were added after his death, not taken away by him, all he took out was indulgences, unless you still believe that you can get into Heaven by buying your way in? I really don’t see a problem with what he did. Also, i never said they were apart of the Trinity, i said there not, thats why we don’t call Mary the virgin mary, or hold Peter in high regard, because i have never found where Jesus told them to call him the Pope, nor do i find where he says pray to saints, honestly that doesn’t really bother me, thats your freedom, but i do wonder why Jesus said everything was forgivable but the Pope somehow has authority over Jesus because he can say what a mortal sin is. But to say that Martin took them out is just silly, it’s just not correct history, and iregardless of what was discussed before hand, Martin did not add or remove any of the discussed books, also the Vulgate, did not include the writings, you are mistaken they were not canonized because Jesus never quoted them, and the early “fathers” regarded them as uninspired. also the Douay Bible’s old testament was not finished until 1609, due to the fact that the writings were added by Pope Clement, its not the original Vulgate. Once again, i honestly don’t care what you guys believe, all i brought up is that we shouldn’t disrespect each other. like i said, as long as we have Jesus were the same, Just look at the thief on the cross, he never confessed to a “priest” or was he baptised by water or did he live a life of righteousness, but he confessed to the Lord and he was saved, as far as who calls on the Lord and is saved, i don’t know i’m not God. And yes Jesus was a Man, but he is God first and after his life here, and i really don’t like paragraghs, Anyways, the message of the bible is clear, we all sinned, he came to say us. and no i don’t think that its my personal task to convert anyone, incase you forgot, you were the one who brought up who is right or wrong, not me, everything i was reading on this forum were posts by people such as yourselves slandering others, and i said we need to knock it off, but once again another foolish argument about Jesus when we believe the same thing about Jesus. as far as my post being different, I can’t ever recall, condeming anyone, and no my interpretation is not wrong, it just doesn’t include a padre’s oppinion and if you think everyone in Heaven is Catholic, i think you should ask your “padre”. because thats not the Jesus i know, or the Jesus I serve. So unless you guys can control your emotions and your mouths, you should probally go somewhere else and waste their time.

bstrong we are one In Christ. Outide of Crist we are fractured and broken. As you have found out many, many here serve Church and not Christ.

Are you really suggesting that there was no Scripture prior to the Council of Trent? My friend, the Church determined what books to include in the canon back in Hippo in 393. Actually, Pope Damasus gave us the list of books at the Council of Rome in 382, the Council of Hippo and then the Council of Carthage (419) just confirmed this. The Church does not define truths unless errors abound on the matter, Catholic Christians looked to the Council of Florence, an ecumenical council in 1441 for the first definitive list of canonical books. However, it was unquestionable that between 382 and 1441 the ONLY recognized Christian Bible was in fact the one spoken of at Rome, Hippo, and Carthage. The final infallible definition of canonical books for Catholics came from the Council of Trent in 1556 in the face of the errors of the Reformers who rejected seven Old Testament books from the canon of scripture to that time. In other words, because these PROTESTers began tearing apart the Canon and throwing books out, the Church again stated what had already been accepted for over a thousand years and this time they did so with absolute infallibility.

Strange, Luther did…
"It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of our Lord and still a virgin."
Martin Luther, Martin Luther’s Works, vol 11, pg 319

"Undoubtedly, there is no one so powerful that, depending on his own intelligence, without Scripture, he would maintain that she did not remain a virgin."
Martin Luther, Martin Luther’s Works, vol 11, pg 320

" There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in Heaven. How it happened we do not know."
Martin Luther, Martin Luther’s Works, vol 10, pg 268

"God has formed the soul and body of the Virgin Mary full of the Holy Spirit, so that she is without all sins, "
Martin Luther, Martin Luther’s Works, vol 52, pg 39

Is the world flat too? I’m sorry my young friend, there are copies of the Bible prior to the reformation and they DO IN FACT have the full canon as introduced at the council of Rome and then again at Hippo and Carthage. It’s silly to dispute what is already proven.

Reread your 2nd post and tell me again that you are not being disrespectful.

To save time, I’ll stop breaking apart this post and summarize my final thoughts on this err… last paragraph. Using words like “padre” in the context that you are using them suggests that you have nothing but contempt for Catholics… certainly not respect as you claim. Next, you my friend are on a Catholic website. And YOU are telling us (Catholics) to “go somewhere else?” You have got to be kidding me. LOL The only one whose emotions seem to be getting the better of them is yours as is evidenced by your inability to articulate your thoughts clearly and in acceptable English. You’re in such a hurry to cry out how wrong the teachings of the Church are, you can’t even take the time to use correct punctuation, capitalization, or grammar. LOL God bless you my little protesting friend.

Hi all,

Reading “The History of the Church” by Eusebius is a good place to start learning about the early Christian Church, after reading the Bible of course. I found that it was helpful to compare some of the things that Eusebius writes about and compare them with things written in the Bible, i.e. the church at Jerusalem, the church at Antioch, etc. It also helped me to get a better perspective by writing down a time line of events, i.e. the first written account of the word “catholic”, the Nicene and post-Nicene fathers, the Council of Trent, the Councils of Ephysus, etc… Another interesting book is “The Dead Sea Scrolls in English”.

Of course there’s always one thing to remember about reading any history books, which I’m sure that you realize, and that is the person doing the writting may be biased one way or the other. Also there’s the fact that, historically, people have always tried to modify,erase, or destroy any historical writtings that they did not personally agree with or might cause a controversy in an established institution. That was one of the things that Jesus faced with the Pharisees. They had years of traditions and teachings that they relied on, and Jesus was a threat to those and their heirachy.

I don’t believe that sayin i don’t care what you believe is disrespectful, i said its your freedom, who am i to say what you can and can’t do? Also concerning your nice words about my grammer, this is a posting, id rather not take the time to writre an essay, its a post thats all. and yes there was scripture before trent, i really think your interpretations of what i say leads you to believe whatever you think, also iregardless of whether or not Mary was or wasn’t a virgin, she didn’t die for our sins, Jesus did and i still find it funny how you never addressed indulgences. but anyways like i keep saying we all believe in Jesus he is the name by which we must be saved, and just because i choose to serve Christ rather then a Man, as far as worshiping and learnig together somehow its possible for catholics and protestants to do it together, but the attitude has to be accepting, that is why you feel the way you do, as far as disproving the Church, i don’t need to try if everyone in the church is as respectful as you are, they will leave by themselves, also why would try to convert Christians to christianity? why wouldn’t i go where they don’t believe in Christ? Old timer, you need to understand that not everyone hates the RRC, i said lets not slander and help each other out, but you my old friend, you may say my grammer is wrong and present your twisted interpretations of what i said, but you dear friend, said we can’t worship together, its this mentality that you exhibit that causes divisions, not disagreements, ever church, even yours has disagreements, but they get past it, but we can never unite until we get past silly ideologies. but you my friend will never learn because your heart is hardened and stuborn, but hopefully you can see one day that people will always disagree but if we want to we can get past it, but i guess you want no part of it, that being based on you not thinking we should worship together, by the way that is not a common belief.

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