Hmmm, if God can find it in his heart and in his power to have Mary born without the stain of original sin, then why cant he do the same for everybody? That will be the ultimate display of love & forgiveness. :shrug:
no the ultimate sign of love and forgiveness is to send his only Son to become human, live suffer and die for us, and to rise from the dead, destroying sin and death, and to invite us to participate in this saving mystery.
Oh so its the ultimate sign of love & forgiveness to let humans suffer the consequences of original sin for hundreds of thousands of years all for the opportunity of having an excuse to send jesus down and become a human sacrifice for the sins of those who has an opportunity to believe blindly in the bible. riiiight! :rolleyes:
When you get to be God then you can run things your way… :shrug:
Obviously you forgot that man chose to suffer by choosing sin over God. Something we all do everyday, which is why we must ask forgiveness. God, through His grace and mercy, then chose to give us a way out of damnation for turning our back on Him through His Son’s death for us.
He didn’t have to do that. He could have just as easily turned His back on us and left us to our own devices and then sent us all to Hell and damnation for our wrongdoings. He didn’t. Why? Because He loves us and decided to give us another chance. For that, I will be forever thankful and will not turn my back on Him. I accept His love and would never be so high minded and foolish to think I deserve anything more than what He gives.
Your assumption is fatally flawed. Being created without the effects of original sin guarantees nothing. Adam and Eve had no original sin and yet they sinned. The angels had no original sin and yet 1/3 of them rebelled.
Isn’t that Mormonism?
Mary was conceived without original sin for a REASON, not for a ‘whim’.
As another poster noted, Mary’s freedom from original sin did NOT mean that she ‘could not sin’ at any time. She had free will. She could have chosen to sin. Adam and Eve were created without original sin; they ‘chose’ sin. It was in order to give humanity another ‘chance’ that God chose Mary (who in turn gave birth to Jesus), so that two beings, one male and one female, without original sin had the same opportunity as Adam and Eve did and chose “not to sin”.
Even IF God chose to create every one of us ‘immaculate’ we COULD STILL SIN. I think you’re confused and think that “immaculate” conception means that we’ll somehow become ‘perfect’ and not NEED a savior, or that somehow Mary got ‘unfair’ preferential treatment and that we’ deserve’ to get what SHE got.
You are putting too much stock in Time. Although we humans perceive time in a certain way, it is not the ultimate reality. God created time and is not subject to it. Christ’s sacrifice was an eternal event as well as a temporal one, and echoed both “forward” and “backward” in time. Thus the merits of Christ could be applied to humans living both before and after Him. The best example is Mary, who benefited from His sacrifice before He was even born.
I believe it’s called “Sarcasm.”
I have to admit that sometimes the way it is spoken of and explained leans more toward a kind of extremely restricted hyper-Calvinistic pre-destination-- something which I personally don’t like.
There’s two points for consideration…
**1. **Mary, in my opinion, has indeed received a singular grace from God in that she alone would bear the child of God and become the mother of God. No one else, in God’s eyes, was suitable for this “Divine Reason of Love” and she alone would bear the child Jesus within her womb.
**2. **She alone, too, would also be the only “purely human being” who would be immaculately conceived without sin and remain entirely sinless for the rest of her life as well-- yet another singular grace that only she would experience.
The difference her is in that which if universally offered and that which is singularly experienced.
In case number one above, this “singular grace” was indeed reserved for her, because God knew in advance that she would say yes to his entreaty and therefore God knew in advance that he could entrust her with his Divine Child.
In case number two above, however, I would argue that this “singular grace” was actually offered to all people throughout human history-- but that all failed to receive this grace except Mary the mother of God.
In other words, this second point is singular to Mary alone not because God only offered it to her. This *second point *is singular to her alone because, throughout the entire scope of human history, only Mary trusted in God’s grace from the point of conception to the point that she was conceived immaculately without sin and remained that way forever onward.
Nonetheless, this second point, in my opinion, is precisely why God, in his infinite wisdom, chose her in the first point to be the mother of his child-- because only she received the fullness of God’s grace to the point that she was fully prepared to become the means by which the Messiah would come to earth.
Conversely, since she alone was the recipient of God’s grace as carefully noted in point 2 above (a universal grace which was offered to all people but that only she received), she alone would also be the sole recipient of God’s grace as carefully noted in point 1 above (a truly singular grace which which was offered to no one else except her).
God is the source of all that is good. Therefore, the goodness that is within us is not something that we have created; rather it is the goodness, or grace, that we have opened ourselves up to receive from God.
And so, the goodness within the Saints in Heaven neither adds to the glory of God, nor does it subtract from the glory of God because it is precisely God’s glory being manifested within them because they freely choose (with the help of God’s grace) to co-operate with it, to receive it, and to act in conjunction with it.
The good works that the saints do are done in and through Jesus Christ…
[quote=Ephesians 2:10]For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.
[quote=John 6:28-29]So they said to him, ‘What can we do to accomplish the works of God?’ Jesus answered and said to them, ‘This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent.’
Consequently, Mary is the most perfect human example of one created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, truly believing in the one he sent. Likewise, God already knows in advance that no one else will ever receive the fullness of God’s “universal offer” in the same way that Mary did-- therefore this remains a “singular grace” to her alone forever onward.
that was adam & eve. the rest of us merely inherited their ‘sinful’ nature. even so that has nothing to do with the main point. God could simply have spared the rest of us the stain of original sin just like what he allegedly did to mary.
Thats what practically happened to the Mayans, the Aztecs and countless people who never had an opportunity to hear the name ‘Jesus’.
Adam & Eve had no idea what good & evil was, Mary did.
Yes we could, but so many of us will not. Why? Its because:
Knowledge of Good & Evil -minus- **the Taint of Original Sin **= Super Duper Resistance to Sin.
Everybody was offered to be born without original sin? What do you mean?
May I remind you that I am not a christian & that I believe that every religion, including Catholicism, is 100% man made. This discussion is for determining whether or not there is a sense in this particular catholic belief.*
We know you aren’t a Christian. Catholicism is rather God-Man made. Because Jesus who is both God and True Man founded our faith. So indirectly, you are correct in some way.
It is interesting that you believe in something. A faith of sorts. Where did your faith to believe that every religion, including Catholicism, is 100% man made come from?
Where’d you get that idea?
its a little difficult to explain. though i would love to share, its really not appropriate for this thread.
remember the tree of knowledge of good & evil? adam & eve had the minds of a minor. they did not know what they were doing. they were ignorant. they were very young. its difficult to comprehend why they were heavily penalized for being decieved by the serpent. its like banishing a 6 year old for giving in to the peer pressure of an 18 year old! again, no sense. :rolleyes:
obviously your timing is better than God’s why don’t you run for the job? don’t blame God for human sin–common mistake of the young and uninstructed.