In the beginning was the Word

Yet, was the Word named Jesus? Did the Word have the human identity of Jesus? Is the Word a specific identifier of an individual? Did God proclaim the Word as the Messiah in the beginning???

The Word was expressed through Jesus. The Word is Gods power and truth and light that creates all, sees all and is in authority over all. Jesus was anointed as the carrier of The Word in a human life, in the human form, to reveal to humanity what the Word was, in power, in truth and in action on earth, for humanity.

The Word is the perfect divine expression Jesus, in human form, was created (birthed) by God, through divine intervention and a miracle, to serve Gods goal of reconciling the separation of mankind from His eternal light and truth.

Jesus is not God, Jesus is the Word of God, because Jesus was the divine expression of Gods power, light and truth on earth as a human being. This was done one time and one time only, and out of the flesh “Jesus” in spirit remained in authority over the earth for all who would call upon him, remembering him and seeking him as the only WAY to God as a human on earth.

What greater news could we receive?

Jesus is not God

What greater news could we receive?

That Jesus is Who the Bible says He is… God.

God bless

**Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.**

Show me where Jesus, in the bible states:

I am God.

IJesus said: If you have seen me you have seen the Father (someone other than Him), because he was the perfect divine expression in the flesh of God’s action, word and deed. But God was greater than him, and he was sent to be God’s Word (power truth light and total authority) on earth in a human form for the reconciliation of humanity to God almighty. Do you think that is wrong to claim? I can claim this without needing to make the statement Jesus is God.

Jesus stated " I do nothing but by the power of My Father who is Greater than I".

Why would “God” defer to a higher power than he? Why could God do nothing without one who is Greater than Him?

I do not negate Jesus divinity, I seek to clarify and proclaim that there is a distinction that is important to be made in order to understand the fullness of His purpose and life on earth that is lost with the blanket summation, “Jesus is God”.

A whole false religion was created because of this, it is called Islam. It is essential to clarify the divinity of Jesus that sets him apart with the divine purpose he was anointed to using HIS teachings and words, not something formed by a committee of men that created a creed that made a leap that was not justified by Jesus own teachings.

Arianism

The heresy propagated by Arius denying the Divinity of Jesus Christ. Following views which Gnostics had popularized, he regarded the Son of God as standing midway between God and creatures; not like God without a beginning, but possessing all other Divine perfections, not of one essence, nature, substance with the Father and therefore not like him in Divinity; an attribute of the Divine nature, the Logos, or Word, Reason. The heresy for a time threatened to rend asunder the Catholic Church, especially when favored by the emperors of the East. It was the root source of many heresies. Its antagonist Athanasius (296-373) contended for half a century for the term consubstantial (Greek: Homoousion, one and the same, as against Homoiousion, like only) to express the identity of the Son in essence, nature, substance with the Father, which was adopted at the Council of Nicaea, 325. This decision established the doctrine of the Divinity of Christ, and although it did not end the struggle of the Arians for ascendancy, it defeated their efforts to anticipate Mohammed and to introduce Unitarianism as Catholic belief.

Yes, the Word was made flesh, by what?

The only begotten of the Father. How did God ‘beget’ himself and why would that be necessary?

The Word was ‘God’ because we are all one. But in our human form we are separate. Jesus taught he was in the Father, the Father was in Him and we are also in Him. Are we God?

The Word is Gods perfect authority, truth and light, it is the power that creates. It is perfect love. We know this because of Jesus. Jesus was human, the perfect divine expression of God, Gods Word, in the flesh. But Jesus was not God, God was still God, who begot Jesus in the flesh to be His Word on earth.

When you say Jesus is God, I agree that there is an element of truth because God is in all things and we are all ONE with God if we are his creation.

But Jesus was fully human and was the one who stated it was by the power GIVEN to him by God that he did what he did. Would God need to defer to a higher power in this manner? Or would he not say “I am God” period.

Jesus never said, “I am God”. He explicitly defined all that he was and so you will not deny that he was Gods perfect will in the human life, Gods word, power and truth given to a human to express out of perfect submission to Gods will as Isaiah proclaimed he would do as the Savior, but Jesus claimed his divinity and his power and authority as a human by the virtue of the Father, who IS God.

All you have proven is that you did not read my words. I have never denied the divinity of Jesus. Look closely, I state again and again and again, Jesus is the perfect divine expression of God, of Gods word, truth, power and light on earth in a human form.

Did you miss that part?

**Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John beareth witness of him and crieth out, saying: This was he of whom I spoke: He that shall come after me is preferred before me: because he was before me.

Joh 8:19 They said therefore to him: Where is thy Father? Jesus answered: Neither me do you know, nor my Father. If you did know me, perhaps you would know my Father also.

Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM.
Joh 8:59 They took up stones therefore to cast at him. But Jesus hid himself and went out of the temple.

Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.
Joh 10:31 The Jews then took up stones to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them: Many good works I have shewed you from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him: For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy: and because that thou. being a, man, makest thyself God.

Joh 10:38 But if I do, though you will not believe me, believe the works: that you may know and believe that the Father is in me and I in the Father.

Joh 12:45 And he that seeth me, seeth him that sent me.

Joh 14:8 Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father; and it is enough for us.
Joh 14:9 Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also. How sayest thou: Shew us the Father?
Joh 14:10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me? The words that I speak to you, I speak not of myself. But the Father who abideth in me, he doth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe you not that I am in the Father and the Father in me?
Joh 14:12 Otherwise believe for the very works’ sake. Amen, amen, I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do: and greater than these shall he do.

Joh 20:28 Thomas answered and said to him: My Lord and my God.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally.

Act 20:28 Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the remission of sins, according to the riches of his, grace,

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he also is in the light, we have fellowship one with another: And the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Tit 2:13 Looking for the blessed hope and coming of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.**

I do not deny Jesus divinity, but many deny Jesus humanity which gave fertile ground for the sowing of the seeds of Islam which saw the problem therein.

It is what dwelled within Jesus human flesh that made him divine, it was given unto him by his submission to God in perfect will, as was foretold by Isaiah that the Messiah would do only what God would will. It was not his human flesh, which hungered, thirsted, suffered and died that was eternal. Jesus was sent to be the power, truth and light for all of humanity, that those who would believe in his divine commission would be brought to a communion with God and receive, through the Holy Spirit, Gods’ eternal truth and power to work through them to bless the world.

This is a divine function and purpose, but the human Jesus was indeed human, even if he was ‘divine’ in his perfection, purpose and inner spirit being submitted only to Gods will in perfection, that we would all know and be prepared to reject those who would come later to claim (as Muhammad did) to be 'the most perfect expression of Gods will and most perfect person on earth for humans to believe and follow.

Jesus was fully human but was fully divine in all manners that the rest of humanity strives toward in His Way, not any other way. Because of Jesus we have the way, the truth and the life, which was given unto us, through the life of the human Jesus, to reconcile us and join our hearts and souls to God.

In that we have been promised that we too would do the great works that Jesus did, as God’s Word can flow through us and do great wonders and bring great peace and joy to this earth.

What am I lacking in the Good News simply by saying Jesus is the perfect divine expression of God in the flesh, but not God himself?

What is lost? What is gained?

Monarchianism

A heretical system, begun about the 2nd century, which so distorts the monarchy (monarchia) of God as to deny the distinction of Persons in the Trinity. It takes the three following forms:

(1) Crass Monarchianism absolutely denies any distinction of Persons in the Trinity and concludes naturally that the Father became incarnate and died on the cross. Hence the name of Patripassians.

(2) Modalist Monarchianism, championed by Sabellius c.50, recognized a distinction in the Trinity, not of Persons but of energies or modes. The Deity is one Person but manifests Itself under different modes; in creation as the Father, in redemption as the Son, in sanctification as the Holy Ghost. Sabellius was condemned by Pope Callistus.

(3) Subordinationism, which admits a real and true distinction of Persons in the Trinity but denies equality between them.

Do you have any words of your own? Do Catholics ever have any thoughts of their own???

Yes, there was one God; the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

I and the Father are one.

No doubt, no argument. So, they are One in Will, in Word, in Power, in Purpose. “They” are joined as we can be joined with God. Which was the goal of God in Jesus, to bring us to this understanding and truth.

Jesus was human. Are we as humans God? Is human ‘divine’.?

Jesus flesh was human, did it show divine qualities of not aging, of not thirsting, of not hungering, of not suffering and dying? Or was it Jesus will that was made divinine, was it the spirit that dwelled within him, that HE said we would all receive and HE said would bring us to do the SAME works that he did and MORE.

Are we God too, if we can receive this in the flesh?

I understand his purpose and his spirit were divine, I have never denied that and never will, but his humanity was human. So, the question then, are we God in our human flesh since we hunger, suffer, thirst and die just like Jesus human flesh did?

See, the human “Jesus” was the perfect divine expression of Gods Word and Will, but in a human form, in a human life, for humanity to gain the truth and to receive the salvation of the sacrifice required to fulfill Gods law.

He was not God. He was all I have stated, but he was not God. God deemed his purpose, his power, his glory, his mission, his authority, his sacrifice, God did this and Jesus submitted to be the perfect will of God as a human in the flesh.

You just cant ignore his humanity because he was divine. He was both, but he was not God. He was given to be divine BY God.

I’m only going to respond to your other thread, since you started two with the same topic…

[quote=empurpledsoul]I do not deny Jesus divinity
[/quote]

:clapping:

Empurpledsoul,

After St. John placed his hand in Jesus’ side, he fell to his knees and said, “My Lord and My GOD.” If Christ is *not * God, then why did He not correct his beloved disciple? Maybe because NO CORRECTION WAS NEEDED!

Peace of Christ

RomeoCharlie meant St. Thomas…:wink:

I’m afraid I do not understand the reasoning of the OP. Because the Word of God was not incarnated in the person of Jesus prior to the incarnation (:hypno:), therefore Jesus is not God? Because God did not declare Jesus to be the Messiah “in the beginning” (which makes no sense to me), therefore Jesus is not God?

What the heck kind of a Christian denies the divinity of Jesus in the first place? :confused:

The mystery of the Trinity is a stumbling block to the flesh and blood. Jesus is fully human and fully divine. I believe the OP recognized the Power of the Word of God becoming flesh and blood and remains grounded in the humanity of Jesus Christ. St. Peter graduated into the mystery of God, when he confessed in the name of the 12 that Jesus is the son of the living God. Jesus then confirmed to him that “flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but God has revealed this to you”.

We cannot enter the mysteries of God alone in our flesh and blood. As Jesus taught us, the paraclete will remind, and reveal all these things and teach us. No one can confess Jesus Christ is Lord unless one has the Holy Spirit.

The vertical and the horizontal of humanity teaching comes to mind here. For flesh and blood remains vertical unless the horizontal of the divine connects in the cross of Jesus Christ, the Catholic church correctly calls this divine action in humanity when the finger of God touches humanity “Sacrament”.

Only God alone can raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind, forgive sins, walked on water, that even nature obeys his every Word not to mention the evil one is subjected to his very command, this Jesus did in his humanity what only God can do.

If “Jesus is not God” as you claim, then how can you be a “Christian”??? (TROLL???)

You think Jesus was just a prophet, just a man, sounds like an Muslim to me!

Good try, "“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.” (Mt 7:15).

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.