In what way is racism wrong?

Is it okay to believe that races (assuming there are races), have attributes, beside their common humanity, which can dispose them to certain moral actions: blacks -courage, jews -smart, etc? (sorry about the crassness of the properties but just take them hypothetically)

[quote="fakename, post:1, topic:249635"]
Is it okay to believe that races (assuming there are races), have attributes, beside their common humanity, which can dispose them to certain moral actions: blacks -courage, jews -smart, etc? (sorry about the crassness of the properties but just take them hypothetically)

[/quote]

Hi,

I believe you confused with stereotypical view of people to racism. Racism includes hatred and discrimination. Racism is not the result of love towards anybody.
Joe

Many might disagree with me here but in my opinion, No, it is not okay.

A so-called positive stereotype is still a stereotype. It is a slippery slope at best.

I don't think a persons race has a whole lot to do with them being susceptible to doing bad things, or even good things. I think a person has their own BASIC personality which is formed by literally thousands of factors during childhood (people do change from experience and have a change of heart, but there are many people out there who are selfish, mean, greedy, etc. There were most likely signs of these attributes during childhood and they could have probably been changed): where they were born, where they grew up, what their parents are like, what their parents morals are, parents income, what kind of lifestyle they have (rich, common, poor), etc.

From my own experience, I grew up living in a pretty wealthy, above average home, like most kids I was raised to be a pretty materialistic kid. Not that I was mean, but I felt ENTITLED to have things I didn't deserve or earn, like I felt I was entitled to have new shoes from my parents just because. Then they got divorced, I moved with my mom and am still now in pretty much poverty, and it has totally opened my eyes and I am thankful that I am able to see much more clear now. Does my materialism/greediness as a kid have anything to do with me being white? No. If I was black and was in the same home, and lived the same lifestyle with the same parents who were also black would that have a difference and would I not be materialistic as a kid if I got what I wanted most of the time? No, I'd probably be the same kid.

Racism is simply wrong because we are all children of God, besides physical characteristics, we've all got the same insides. We're humans with different colors and features, that's what makes us different from one another, it's incredible. How many other types of animals do you see that have the capability to be essentially the same animal but have totally opposite physical features like different skin color, hair color, eye color, height, weight? Not many.

[quote="fakename, post:1, topic:249635"]
Is it okay to believe that races (assuming there are races), have attributes, beside their common humanity, which can dispose them to certain moral actions: blacks -courage, jews -smart, etc? (sorry about the crassness of the properties but just take them hypothetically)

[/quote]

Yes. I was born in Mozambique where we had blacks, Portuguese, south Africans, the then Rodhesiasn, chinese, indian, goan, mixed. Everybody had stereotypes about the other races, including the black about the white ( and I do not tell these jokes from the black to the other races here for you would be shocked ) and everybody laughed at all the jokes (including the jokes of the blacks against us) and there was a multi-racial community 1000 years old at least.

I think in America it is funny that you cannot make a joke of other races. That, for me, is racism. Because you have jokes of the whites towards the whites (say farmer versus city people or vice versa) but you CANNOT make a joke about back people for it is racism. Brothers fight all the time as my children do and are making jokes all the time. Non-Brothers dont make jokes.

Personal opinion, very very personal and I am not trying to convince anybody of my personal vey perosnl opinion.

Every way! :sad_yes: And not all Jewish people are smart and not All African Americans are brave.

[quote="fakename, post:1, topic:249635"]
Is it okay to believe that races (assuming there are races), have attributes, beside their common humanity, which can dispose them to certain moral actions: blacks -courage, jews -smart, etc?

[/quote]

This would be true if you meant to say "cultures" instead of "races." People often confuse the two when a particular culture is dominated by a particular race. Cultures having moral attributes is why the assertion that all cultures have equal value is ridiculous. Some cultures are simply bad news. Does anyone weep for the Nazis? Okay, a few idiots do. Disregard them.

[quote="fakename, post:1, topic:249635"]
Is it okay to believe that races (assuming there are races), have attributes, beside their common humanity, which can dispose them to certain moral actions: blacks -courage, jews -smart, etc? (sorry about the crassness of the properties but just take them hypothetically)

[/quote]

Hi fakename :)
This is how an online dictionary defines the word racism:

1:A belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2: a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3: hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

From the definition alone, you can see that racism is wrong and discriminatory. It is also contrary to the Christian teaching of “love your neighbor as you love yourself.”

Racism is wrong because you hate someone. Wanting what is right for your own kind is good.

[quote="fakename, post:1, topic:249635"]
Is it okay to believe that races (assuming there are races), have attributes, beside their common humanity, which can dispose them to certain moral actions: blacks -courage, jews -smart, etc? (sorry about the crassness of the properties but just take them hypothetically)

[/quote]

Hi fakename,

What you propose here isn't really "racism" but "racial essentialism," the belief that the races are characterized by innate and inherent differences. Racial essentialism is a component of racism (racists would claim that these innate and inherent differences allow the races to be categorized hierarchically, with "superior" races arrayed above "inferior" ones), but it is a component of it.

So I guess while you could say that all racists necessarily believe in the examples you posted, not everyone who believes them are necessarily racists. Personally I think there's something to be said for the essentialist viewpoint as long as it's understood that you're talking about trends or generalized observations, not describing each and every individual member of that race.

We're all made in the Image of God, our Father and Creator, to hate someone for the color of their skin or their natural appearance is to hate the One who created them.

Based on what I know about stuff, I think that what is popularly called racism is sometimes right and sometimes wrong. Hatred is not a sin except insofar as it is a hatred of the perfections that a person has, for instance if you hated jewish people because they were smart per se. But it is not wrong to dislike what is wrong with people -and inasmuch as smartness can be wrong -that it lapses into craftiness if not properly controlled -then there is acceptable racism.

With the further proviso that you don't believe that a person's race is not their essence -that we are all equally men -then your "racism" is still okay since you are not hating their essence but rather are hating their accidental qualities (levity, avarice, etc.) which may proceed from other accidental qualities (blackness or whiteness).

So you don't really hate black or white or intelligence as they are in themselves but only as they tend towards a bad effect. But there's probably a little bit more to it.

The question is are we radically equal. The view on this seems to be rather confused. It is easiest to see with the sexes. It is obvious that women are smaller and weaker than men. Of course this does not mean all are, it simply is a generalization. But even if we ignored that women and men have a real physical difference in the sex organs. So it is obvious we are not radically equal physically.

The question then is are we radically equal in the non-physical realm. There seems to be lots of evidence that we are not radically equal here either. Men and women have differences in intelligence, emotional and in other ways.

Of course some people will object to this. But their lack of sincerity can be easily shown. If men and women are radically different, outside of the physical realm, then advocates of this would be clamoring that either more women need to go to jail or most men let out. When you look at the prison system men are hugely disproportionately imprisoned. This could be due to either a difference in character in men vs. women or discrimination by the system. If one holds to radical equality it would have to be discrimination. And if so this would be, without question, the greatest discrimination in any culture (and pretty universally practiced).

So humans are not all radically equal since we have at least men and women who are different. The differences might extend beyond just the sexes. I see no reason that a person can not believe in differences. I see no reason why there must not be differences. But the most important thing is that we all are, as others point out, created in God's image. Thus we all deserve to be treated as such.

[quote="odhiambo, post:8, topic:249635"]
Hi fakename :)
... It is also contrary to the Christian teaching of “love your neighbor as you love yourself.”

[/quote]

And that Christ died for everyone.

There’s a somewhat famous Broadway song from the musical “Avenue Q” (WARNING: not recommended for children) called “Everyone’s a Little Bit Racist”.

For those who would rather not listen to it, it makes a statement that “no one’s really colourblind”. We all think things about other races and cultures that aren’t necessarily true, but sometimes are. Everyone. Blacks. Whites. Latinos. Asians. All of us joke and are joked about because of race differences and stereotypes. And maybe, if we share these kinds of jokes and see that no race is perfect, we’ll all laugh and enjoy life more knowing full well that we stereotype each other.

In short, everyone is guilty of stereotyping, and it can bring us together if we wouldn’t be so politically correct. :mad:

I think racist jokes can be used to cement hatred or condescension. But they also can be used to build a common bond between people. Racists use racist jokes to dehumanize others. Non-racists use racist jokes to dehumanize the stereotypes and force themselves to see beyond the stereotypes.

There are even racist jokes in the Bible. In Genesis, Lot’s daughters get their father drunk and have incest with him and start the nations of Moab and Ammon. This may have been hilarious to many Hebrews. At the same time, many Hebrew men would often marry Moabite and Ammonite women (without making them converts). Ruth was a virtuous Moabite.

I’m not racist, but I’m not “politically correct” either… I don’t fall for the Afro-American stuff, or the native American stuff…the way I see it you’re either white, black, asian, or indian…but we’re all Americans

People are affected by their culture, which may or may not be shaped in part by race. That is, in some instances, race plays an essential role, for better or for worse, in development. A white person who grows up in a black ghetto will have a certain identity, fair or not, that is shaped by race. Do all white people share that identity? Obviously not. One can think of similar instances for any race. Does the white African (from Africa) share more in common with dark complected people around the world, or people who grew up close to him geographically?

It is ludicrous to pretend that race does not exist or impact culture. It is equally ludicrous to assume that race defines culture. In America we have people who hail from all over the world. Most enjoy celebrating their culture. I’m proudly Irish-American and I celebrate that culture. My brother-in-law is Honduran, and raising his daughter in that culture. Would you notice the difference between a Mexican and a Honduran celebration, or would you think they were the same because they are similarly complected?

Racism is bad. Pride in one’s culture is good. Racism does not mean noticing complexion. It does not mean being aware of a certain culture. Racism is when, having noticed race, you attribute culture and assume that your own is better.

Here’s a good question:

Is it racist or is it common sense in this situation:

Say a cop sees a white guy driving three black guys. He pulls over the car and asks the driver if he’s being held hostage or anything.

I’d say that’s hilarious, but it’s not racist. Blacks do seem to commit a lot of crime. Not all blacks do, but we’d be lying if we said many don’t. :shrug:

[quote="TarkanAttila, post:18, topic:249635"]
Here's a good question:

Is it racist or is it common sense in this situation:

Say a cop sees a white guy driving three black guys. He pulls over the car and asks the driver if he's being held hostage or anything.

I'd say that's hilarious, but it's not racist. Blacks do seem to commit a lot of crime. Not all blacks do, but we'd be lying if we said many don't. :shrug:

[/quote]

Common sense tells me that you seem to be portraying a probable situation in a particular area. Otherwise you actually did be lying by saying "many don't"--looking at the bigger picture.

What about this example for instance: In an area where there are somewhat noticeable levels of child abuse by adults, are cops going to stop all adults/parents driving children? Whatever this method is called :shrug: it might breach the fundamental concept of human dignity--"which is inviolable and its respect and protection is the duty of all state authority" (§1.1 German Constitution). ;)

I believe "bad people" from whatever society or ethnic group to be more specific usually constitute the minority. Don't you think it would be too general to....

[quote="USNCorpsman, post:16, topic:249635"]
... I'm not "politically correct" either...

[/quote]

I see by your name that you were in the Navy. Let me ask you if, in any of your various sensitivity classes, you rejected truth when it conflicted with EEO ideology.

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