Incapable of Sin?


#1

Do Catholics believe that Jesus was unable to sin while he walked the earth?

If so, why?


#2

What do you mean by “unable to sin”?

Do you mean that He could have sinned, but didn’t, or that He was incapable of sinning and thus didn’t?


#3

Since Jesus was both fully human and fully God, he had a human will as well as a divine will. As a human, he was subjected to temptation, but his human will was always in accord with his divne will, so he never sinned, (which would, after all, be a sin against Himself.) Whether or not this means he was ‘incapable’ of sin, I’m not sure.


#4

Do you mean that He could have sinned, but didn’t, or that He was incapable of sinning and thus didn’t?

My question is, do you believe the He was incapable of sinning and thus didn’t.


#5

Did Jesus sin when He followed Stan around in Matts version of the temptation? Or was Matt sinning when he wrote that Jesus was more than just a little open to satan’s propositions?

Peace


#6

Well, since John wrote that Jesus was “a man like us in all things but sin”, and since the Catechism of the Catholic Church states

Born of the Virgin Mary, he has truly been made one of us, like to us in all things except sin.[99]

, I think that you can judge the Catholic position on Jesus.

He was and is “like us in all things but sin”. Sinless Himself, yet human/ divine (the hypostatic union), His free will, freely applied, would not lead Him to sin–sin being an offense against God Himself.

God is rational. God cannot be divided against Himself.

To say that God is all-good, sinless etc. and then in the same breath say that “he could sin” is to mock God’s own rationality.

It’s like the old, “Could God make a rock so heavy He couldn’t lift it” fallacy.

God isn’t held down by our human limitations and inability to understand His transcendent, immortal, sinless and glorious nature. Luckily for us. . .


#7

The only way God could sin is retroactively, that being when the church binds something as a sin which God has already done.

Peace


#8

I know that Jesus did not sin. I know that His will was aligned with the Father’s.

The question is COULD HE HAVE SINNED? COULD HE have chosen against what was right and done what was wrong.

If the answer is no, then how was he tempted? The Bible says Jesus was tempted. If he was incapable of sinning, it wasn’t a real temptation. ???


#9

No, He could not have sinned. It would have been totally against His nature.


#10

[quote=Curious]I know that Jesus did not sin. I know that His will was aligned with the Father’s.

The question is COULD HE HAVE SINNED? COULD HE have chosen against what was right and done what was wrong.

If the answer is no, then how was he tempted? The Bible says Jesus was tempted. If he was incapable of sinning, it wasn’t a real temptation. ???
[/quote]

No I know He is not capable of sin.But,He was tempted,my take on this is He being God willed to experience what we feel when we are tempted.Temptation is not sin,falling into temptation is sin.Does that help or have I made it worse?God Bless


#11

God willed to experience what we feel when we are tempted.Temptation is not sin,falling into temptation is sin.Does that help or have I made it worse?God Bless

Lisa that was extremely helpful. Thank you.

I know being tempted is not a sin. There are some things I’ve heard in certain Protestant circles that always made good sense to me. And I guess that’s what I’ve always believed. I’ll post the arguments sometime when I get back. I’m going to Ash Wednesay mass tonight. :thumbsup:

But I’d be interested to see what you all think of the arguments I’m going to post so please stay tuned.


#12

[quote=Lisa4Catholics]No I know He is not capable of sin.But,He was tempted,my take on this is He being God willed to experience what we feel when we are tempted.Temptation is not sin,falling into temptation is sin.Does that help or have I made it worse?God Bless
[/quote]

Depending on the version of the temptation, Jesus may or may have not fell into temptation. In the versions other than Matt. He rejected Satan mostly outright, however,in Matts version Jesus took a little sightseeing trip with the Devil.

Peace


#13

Since sin is defined as violating God’s Will, how could Jesus, who is God, have sinned? No, by the very definition of sin he was incapable of it.


#14

sorry guys…I’m at a loss now and very frustrated because for one, I’m having a difficult time articulating and two, I can’t find the verses I want.

BLAH!!! You guys go ahead and talk about this if you want. I’m too aggravated now. :frowning:


#15

I guess it’s a chicken-or-egg mystery so the answer is yes and no. Yes, in the sense He became fully human to show us His complete understanding of our condition (completely “with us”) and He couldn’t cheat. No, in the sense that He was divine/all knowing and in contact with His Father in heaven and such was His state of mind/heart.
Another way to better understand Jesus’ state of mind/heart is to read about the lives of saints, they got much closer to demonstrating it than me or most others.


#16

[quote=Curious]Do Catholics believe that Jesus was unable to sin while he walked the earth?

If so, why?
[/quote]

Since Jesus is true God and true man, He cannot sin, God cannot sin, sin is to God as darkness is to light.( both incompatable)
That doesn’t mean that satan in his pride wasn’t allowed to tempt Jesus, everything Jesus done in the Bible was for our benefit (example)
If you can get your head around the Trinity, 3 Devine persons in One God then you on a downhill stretch.
Anyway the very name Emmanuel means God among us, Jesus said he who has seen Him has seen the Father, " for I and the Father are one".
Curious, if you don’t understand something, pray to the Holy Spirit for enlightment.


#17

[quote=Curious]sorry guys…I’m at a loss now and very frustrated because for one, I’m having a difficult time articulating and two, I can’t find the verses I want.

BLAH!!! You guys go ahead and talk about this if you want. I’m too aggravated now. :frowning:
[/quote]

The verses you want are not seen too often in a forum and especially in articulating a very difficult hurdle a Christian has to face in his/her lifetime,sorting and sifting human will from Divine Will.

“A woman giving birth to a child has pain because her time has come; but when her baby is born she forgets the anguish because of her joy that a child is born into the world. 22So with you: Now is your time of grief, but I will see you again and you will rejoice, and no one will take away your joy. 23In that day you will no longer ask me anything. I tell you the truth, my Father will give you whatever you ask in my name. 24Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will receive, and your joy will be complete.”

bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=John%2016;&version=31;

The great Christians have written on the matter of that frustration that is as much a condition of Christian living as anything else.Certainly many would hesitate before the gift of God which is manifested in the sincere Christian like yourself as a sense of frustration.

Jesus no longer had to fight his way out of that frustration you feel as He spoke those words and neither did the disciple who wrote the passage above AFTER he received the gift of God through the life and death of Jesus.

As you see the frustration can be painful but it is not permanent and given in measure to each as His Majesty pleases.Our Catholic faith can ease the suffering through participation in the services and in turn those who find themselves back after the experience refresh those who are just beginning - vine and branches and beautiful balances.


#18

Hello Curious,

Jesus, while in the flesh, indicates that he had a will separate from the Father’s will.

Scriptures indicate that Jesus was tempted in everyway that we are, yet He never sinned. If Jesus was incapable of sin then He was not tempted in everyway that we are.

Scriptures tell us that Jesus is obedient to the Father. If one cannot be disobedient to the the will of the Father, how can one be obedient to the Father?

Jesus’ gift of salvation on the cross is a, free from the Father’s will, gift of love through Jesus free choice of obedience to the Father’s will.

Please visit Jesus Loves God

NAB LUK 22:42

“Father, if it is** your will**, take this cup from me; yet not my will but yours be done.”

NAB REV 3:21

“I will give the victor the right to sit with me on my throne, as I myself won the victory and took my seat beside my Father on his throne.”

NAB HEB 4:14

Since, then, we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast to our profession of faith. For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weakness, but one who was tempted in every way that we are, yet never sinned.

NAB ISA 7:14

**Therefore the LORD himself will give you this sign: the virgin shall be with child, and bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel. He shall be living on curds and honey by the time he learns to reject the bad and choose the good. **

NAB ROM 5:18

To sum up, then: just as a single offense brought condemnation to all men, **a single righteous act brought all men acquittal and life. **Just as through one man’s disobedience all became sinners, so through one man’s obedience all shall become just.

NAB JOH 10:17
"The Father loves me for this: that I lay down my life to take it up again. No one takes it from me; I lay it down freely."

NAB JOH 15:12

This is my commandment: love one another as** I have loved you. There is no greater love than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.** You are my friends if you do what I command you.

**NAB JOH 14:30 **

“I shall not go on speaking to you longer; the Prince of this world is at hand. He has no hold on me, but the world must know that I love the Father and do as the Father has commanded me.”

NAB JOH 4:34

“Doing the will of him who sent me and bringing his work to completion is my food.”

NAB JOH 8:29

“The One who sent me is with me. He has not deserted me since I always do what pleases him.”

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com


#19

Let’s not go too far in seperating the will of Christ from the will of the Father. Both are God, and God’s will is in each facet. The Father is no more God than The Son. Jesus had a human will and perspective, yes, but that will was perfectly united with His Divine will, the will of God.

Obedience doesn’t imply the ability to be disobedient, it simply means that the Son was in line with the Father, which makes sense since the Father and Son are the same being, God.


#20

No, NO, NO…this is just totally wrong…While Christ, who is God, took on the Human form…He endured temptations, pain, and suffering, as we all do…He was tempted to sin, yet never succumbed to Sin…Think about this…We are all created in God’s image…and as Christians, we are all called to be “Christ Like”, which means God created us to be “sinless”, just as Christ was sinless…we are capable of doing it…yet we don’t. Christ while being truly divine was also truly Human…Yes, Christ was able to be tempted and yes Christ would have been capable of sinning…but He did not. Why is it so hard to understand? If he was incapable of Sin…then why the stories of tempation in the Gospels, etc…??? You all are getting to hung up on the Divinity of Christ and you are totally ignoring the Humanity of Chirst…Christ didn’t even know he was the Son of God until he was Baptized and the Holy Spirit came upon him and a voice from the Heavens said something to the effect “This is my son, in whom I am pleased”

[quote=Tom]No, He could not have sinned. It would have been totally against His nature.
[/quote]


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