incest is Amish-land


#1

Just had to share this link with someone. Found it at Andrew Sullivan’s site. Does anyone here know about this? Is it common knowledge?

I am a bit speechless right now.

legalaffairs.org/issues/January-February-2005/feature_labi_janfeb05.html


#2

That is horrible:eek: Those poor kids.God Bless


#3

[quote=caroljm36]Just had to share this link with someone. Found it at Andrew Sullivan’s site. Does anyone here know about this? Is it common knowledge?

I am a bit speechless right now.

legalaffairs.org/issues/January-February-2005/feature_labi_janfeb05.html
[/quote]

Wow, interesting!


#4

In nomine Jesu I offer you all peace,

This so disappointing to me. I have always looked at the Amish with admiration for their convictions. I guess it goes to show that no matter what we are all sinners that need repentence and forgiveness no matter what your religious upbringing. There is not “silver bullet” for sin but the turning whole-heartedly to God through Jesus Christ.

Peace.


#5

[quote=chrisb]In nomine Jesu I offer you all peace,

This so disappointing to me. I have always looked at the Amish with admiration for their convictions. .

Peace.
[/quote]

Tell me about it…I felt the same way, reverencing the Amish and Hutterites for getting away from all this worldliness. Now I want to throw up. I always wondered how they could keep their populations up with the inevitable outflow…now I know. And now I remember that the few I have seen in town did look a little, well, inbred.

Actually the problem they speak of can happen in many other circumstances. All it takes is an absent father, mom at work and teenage boys for whom there is No God. At least Christians understand the extent of human depravity, or should. It’s not going away anytime soon.


#6

i live a few miles down the street from some of these people. it will never cease to amaze me what happens when people try to curb behaviors instead of reaching the heart. telling some one not to do something will never have the impact of changing their hearts for God.


#7

I’m sick about the Amish and sicker still about the failure of law enforcement to protect our children in various parts of the country. This is a case of the law enabling the criminals. Certain religions are apparently exempt from the law – the Mormons and the Amish.

The following is a long but very interesting newspaper account of what goes on in the Mormon towns of Colorado City, Arizona, on the border with its sister city, Hildale, Utah. Polygyny (one man, more than one wife) is openly practiced in both states. Young men are forced out early and young girls become one of the plural “wives” of older men. Child molestation and statutory rape, if not outright rape, are common. And, these communities are tax supported. A man with 8 wives and 54 kids needs help to buy groceries for his family, don’tchaknow.

The governor, attorney general, and law enforcement officials of two states have let this go on for many, many years. Local law officials in these towns are all polygynists, too. The polygyny-practicing Mormons have expanded into Canada and now Texas.

phoenixnewtimes.com/issu…ture_print.html

We critize human rights violations in other countries, but tolerate this horrific treatment of women and young girls and boys right here in America.


#8

Please do not unequivocally condemn the Amish-Hutterites because of these actions by some of their members. The hypocracy in making that condemnation would just be…, lets not go there.

Instead lets just gather together and pray for the children harmed or in harms way of vile-predators, period.


#9

Jon Krakauer wrote a non-fiction book about the polygamous Mormon community called “Under the Banner of Heaven”.

The authorities just wink and nod at the men who are taking advantage of these very young women - some as young as 14 - and making them “plural” wives. It is outright child molestation. Some of the men take their own step-daughters as wives.

The young men are forced out of the community in order to eliminate the competion for the girls. Some of the girls try to escape, and the authorities place them right back into the same situation. Many of the girls are so brain-washed they can’t even envision another life for themselves. Why do you think that Elizabeth Smart was such an easy target for her kidnappers? I’m not saying that her parents were polygamous, far from it. But growing up in a fundamental Mormon community, you are exposed to these extra-Biblical doctrines, and it’s easy to convince a young girl that this lifestyle is the will of the founder, Joseph Smith.

Many of the girls are passed around from man to man as the “husband” gets tired of her and “divorces” her.

Its very sad.


#10

[quote=InigoMontoya]Please do not unequivocally condemn the Amish-Hutterites because of these actions by some of their members. The hypocracy in making that condemnation would just be…, lets not go there.
QUOTE]

Well I know, we have plenty of problems in our own church. But the indication is that it is a wide-spread practice and that the govt agencies know about it and write it off to religious freedom, family privacy etc. Thing is, I tend to favor the privacy of the family and religious freedom of course, but then you get situations like this. It’s mind boggling and shows the answer is not all black and white.
[/quote]


#11

[quote=caroljm36]Tell me about it…I felt the same way, reverencing the Amish and Hutterites for getting away from all this worldliness. Now I want to throw up. I always wondered how they could keep their populations up with the inevitable outflow…now I know. And now I remember that the few I have seen in town did look a little, well, inbred.
[/quote]

Carol,

What a shallow prejudicial generalization - let alone extending it to include the Hutterites - who, in a quick scan of the piece, I did not see mentioned. The Amish “keep their populations up” because, as a general rule, they do not practice birth control.

The Amish, as a whole, derive from a significantly small gene pool (e.g., the Old Amish communities in Lancaster County, PA are essentially derived from only about 200 immigrant families). As a consequence there are statistically significant incidences among them of some genetic and hereditary diseases (e.g., glutaric aciduria).

In view of this, major epidemiological studies of the Amish have been performed, chiefly at Johns Hopkins. Although the results of such confirm the likelihood of inherited risk, none has observed a significant contribution to risk by familial inbreeding. Most marriages, particularly in smaller communities, are arranged with families in other, distant, Church districts to reduce or minimize the potentially negative effects of intermarriage and pregnancy occurring among closely-related persons.

Many years,

Neil


#12

I get this magazine and read the article a few days ago. It was a shock although I suspect it’s more the exception than the rule. Human nature is human nature. There are bound to be perverts in the Amish population just as there are perverts everywhere. The problem though is the way that many of these issues are handled internally and the “long arm of the law” cannot reach into these communities. A similar situation occurs with respect to Native Americans who have their own ‘justice system’ and as a result children are neglected, drug and alcohol or other necessary medical treatment is not forthcoming. Any closed, insular community whether Amish, Fundamentalist Mormons, or Native Americans is a perfect breeding ground for such atrocities. Sometimes a bit of government interference is appropriate…

Lisa N


#13

[quote=caroljm36]I felt the same way, reverencing the Amish and Hutterites for getting away from all this worldliness.
[/quote]

Carol,

No church or race or institution or nation that is constituted by human beings is perfect. When we romanticize folks like the Amish (with whom I am very familiar and for whom I have great respect), we do an injustice to them and set ourselves up for disappointment when we realize that they are not perfect.

Many years,

Neil


#14

One reason you don’t see this getting more press is that Amish are not considered a threat to the secular culture and there is no one to sue who has deep pockets.


#15

Neil, that was really well said. :thumbsup:


#16

I have been to Amish country (in Pennsylvania ) and they were nice people and make DELICIOUS mashed potatoes, and I bought a nice but expensive blanket from them. However on the whole I couldn’t understand what they were really doing or trying to prove. I mean they try to stay in the “dark” in terms of technology and practice, but it seems futile to me. For one they “drive” horse drawn carriages, yet they must have ELECTRIC turn signals and follow the rules of the asphalt paved road. Second they let in “outsiders” who are supposedly everything they don’t want to be or have anything to do with . In terms of the forum topic One thing I noticed was that most of the women were growing moustaches/beards. And that the City that is right in the heart of the area was called Intercourse, PA


#17

:However on the whole I couldn’t understand what they were really doing or trying to prove.:

Then maybe you could do a little more study and actually learn something about them. One tourist visit hardly qualifies you as an expert. They aren’t trying to keep out all modern technology; they make a decision on a case-by-case basis as to whether a given form of technology will disrupt their way of life or not.

In Christ,

Edwin


#18

[quote=Catholic Dude]For one they “drive” horse drawn carriages, yet they must have ELECTRIC turn signals and follow the rules of the asphalt paved road.
[/quote]

Dude,

They use either battery powered turn signals or ones that are powered by the horse’s gait - they are required to use these by law, as a safety measure. As to the asphalt paved roadways - would you suggest that they tear up the roads constructed by the local cities and towns?

Second they let in “outsiders” who are supposedly everything they don’t want to be or have anything to do with.

It’s a bit tough to build barbed wire enclosures around entire communities, wouldn’t you agree?

In terms of the forum topic One thing I noticed was that most of the women were growing moustaches/beards.

I decline to bother commenting, except to note that it’s a good thing you don’t frequent Italian neighborhoods, you’d surely write off the Italians as inbred, if that’s what you perceive as a marker.

the City that is right in the heart of the area was called Intercourse, PA

Please, please, please :confused:

See How Intercourse Got Its Name

Many years,

Neil


#19

it seems i teed off a few people…but it did get me thinking. also i think people misunderstood what i was saying…like the road issue, no they shouldnt tear up the road, yet this new foreign object is something they must now use indicating that they cant just ignore a changing world. and in terms of “outsiders” i read a lot on how they want to be left alone, yet they themselves are growing rapidly and contact or influence with the outside is going to have an impact on their way of life.

i looked into some info on the Amish did learn some stuff, though some of it led to more questions. most of the info was second hand (like a relative or friend of them), because they dont use internet. one thing that was interesting that i didnt know is that they came from europe during the reformation and divided into the mennonites and amish later.

when dealing with modern technology i see how they try to keep things simple which is an amazing feat, but at the same time i read all this scripture they quote and its like any protestant reading into the Bible what they want or feel, one passage they use concerning modern technology is:

“Be not conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind that ye may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.” (Romans 12:2)

now i understand how they could say this, but at the same time i dont think this is the main idea Pauls is trying to get across.

One big question i had was that they go to school up to 8th grade, yet what are they learning that takes 8 years? in a community like that i would suspect that most of the learning would come from home just living the life. like in terms of learning history, yes they came from around 1600, but isnt it irrelivant in most most cases beacuse they dont want to have anything to do with people who are not them? no need for science. what are they allowed to read in terms of literature? how advanced does the math need to be?

i guess this all come down to a freedom of lifestyle and if i dont understand its my problem. what they are doing is not bad, it just seem to me that they live in the past and are going to wake up one day (for example if there were housing developments popping up around them) and not know what to do. most of this change didnt happen from 1600 to 1900,it is happening now so to say they have just been doing what worked for so long might not work now.


#20

I grew up near some Amish. Nice people. But not perfect. They have their faults. They do adapt, but very slowly and carefully. Also some communities are healthier then others. It’s a free country. They can live as they choose. I never minded them. In a way they are like the monks of the Protestant world.


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