Increase of Atheists around the world, increase of crime any coincidence?

Yeah all of this seems pretty baseless, and honestly downright offensive. I think the people here have made better criticisms of atheism/agnosticism before, but this is certainly not one of them.

Thank you, it’s somewhat annoying to be strawmanned as a moral nihilist


The OP is confusing atheism with the concept of having no moral code or a poor moral code that is out of step with society’s laws (for example, a person who thinks drug dealing is an okay way to make a living). If he lives in a society where an increase in atheism and the weakening of a central church (which in UK is also the weakening of a central state institution because church and state were not separate there) are going hand in hand with an increased crime rate, then I can see where he’d reach this conclusion. However, in the USA, the crime rate is highest in the American South which is also known as the area of the country that most emphasizes Christianity. Crime rates are likely driven more by economic factors such as income inequality, racial inequality, and education levels than they are by religious belief or unbelief.


Prolly because of the internet—it’s easier to watch cat videos than commit crime :slightly_smiling_face:


I appreciate your well-reasoned take on this.

it is not what you teach them but what the school system and world system teaches them. even homeschooled, which is better, but if they watch tv and play video games they get the world view.

it is not simplistic-thinking it is realistic. look at the work ethic coming out of school it is terrible.

define good and bad. who gets to define it. there is nothing to fall back on. there is no good or bad. it is just what the majority or even just those in power at the time deem reasonable.

I think this needs to be broadened to the agnostic, nones and non-practicing Christian than it would be more appropriate.

it is the lack of morals and it isn’t just an atheist who lack morals

atheism has no moral code. show me something that all atheists follow as a moral code.

the atheist gets to make up what they want and can change it at the drop of a hat. it is not etched on a stone. it is an individual thing and can be as varied as the grains of sands on the beach. they have no guiding rules. they can live according to religious morals but they aren’t bound by them. they can live according to no moral code. there is no rule that brings them all together. it is an individual feelgood thing. it is really about me.

As David Robertson a minister in the Free Church of Scotland says:

And finally your absolute Darwinian philosophy cannot logically and consistently argue for morality because to put it bluntly there is no good or evil. As you so brilliantly describe it in The Blind Watchmaker :

In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.

That then is the atheist basis of morality – no justice, no rhyme nor reason, no purpose, no evil, no good, just blind pitiless indifference. It is little wonder that atheist philosophers have been desperately hunting round to try and establish some basis for a godless morality. Despite the best efforts of E. O. Wilson and Peter Singer, this basis is severely lacking, being little more than a utilitarian ‘greatest good for the greatest number’ without ever defining what ‘good’ is.


Ah. So you are the moral arbitrator and we are the great immoral unwashed. We all need someone to whom we can look up to and I guess you could be it. I am eager to learn more about how I can live a good life from you. After all, you are bound by your religious morality and have never transgressed.

We need a paragon of virtue in these dark days and you, upant, have stepped up to the plate. We all look forward to more posts from you on matters of morality.

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Most so-called “religious” people also make up their own moral codes to some extent. There are very few who faithfully follow the practices of their church, especially when the church has any rules that are difficult and might conflict with something the person wants to do, such as abortion, or contraception, or fornication, or adultery or substance abuse. Of course, if you can find a church that says it’s just fine to abort, or contracept, or divorce and remarry, or fornicate, or “Once Saved Always Saved”, then you can still call yourself a religious person while you go around doing what you want.

look at the work ethic coming out of school it is terrible.

Interesting that you mention the work ethic, as many would argue that the true “national religion” in USA is the standard Protestant work ethic which is applied across all believers and nonbelievers.


I’m not sure you can blame atheists for that. I know many wonderful people who don’t believe in God, and worse, I know many jerks who do!


Crime isn’t on the rise, at least not in the states. Crime is at some of its lowest rates in American history.

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me, Nah, I have my own issues. I can just admit it

define good

Dawkins proclaimed, in an atheistic world there is no good or bad. how can you have a true set of morals if everything is relative? it is only what makes the individual feel good. what if, what you think is good, the next atheist disagrees, who is right? the majority? atheists seem to define morals based on the majority. but as bishop sheen says:

“Moral principles do not depend on a majority vote. Wrong is wrong, even if everybody is wrong. Right is right, even if nobody is right.”

― Fulton J. Sheen

I agree and indicated this above

how many people coming out of school claim a religious bent?


That right there is by far our most important consideration…

Events are proving out Prophecies, Unfurling.

MainTain your Faith in JESUS…


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In which school and which part of the country are we talking about? A college teacher I know who was teaching in Florida complained to me that her students saw everything in terms of the Bible. It was not a Bible College she was at, but a public school. There are parts of the country and schools where lots of people come out of school religious, and other parts and schools where they don’t.

I personally don’t know anyone who went into college with a strong religious belief and came out having lost it. Those who lost belief usually didn’t have a strong foundation going in.

On the east coast, mid-Atlantic and Florida

I work with professional, skilled and unskilled.

The work ethic has gone downhill. the majority think they deserve a paycheck for showing up.

I don’t have the option of discussing religion in my workplace. I was speaking of the work ethic of young in general.

Very close actually. The proliferation of cell phones reduced the need for drug dealers to fight over turf.

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Angel of Nanjing is a documentary produced in 2015.

Chen Si is angel of Nanjing


The Yangtze River Bridge in Nanjing is one of the most famous bridges in China.
It is also the most popular place in the world to commit suicide. For the past 11 years Chen Si has been patrolling this bridge, looking to provide aid for those who’ve gone there to end their lives. Incredibly, he has saved over 300 people since he began - nearly one every two weeks.

Chen Si describes the 5 different types of suicidal people he has encountered over 7 years

Mentally ill

Emotional/ or those in a strained relationship

Those suddenly experiencing misfortune or change in life

Victims of abuse

Those suffering from pain from terminal illness.

Of these 5 types, Chen Si says that those suffering pain from illness are the most difficult to pull away from self destruction.

Those who don’t know and understand the Suffering Christ will be most vulnerable to falling prey to the ‘Yangtze Bridge’. The increasing number of states in the US with legalized assisted suicide reflects this trend of violence and a life without Christ.

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So you are no different from the rest of us, upant. Good that you admitted that because from your earlier post it sounded like you were declaiming from a self-perceived higher moral position.

Thanks for the clarification.

Now, on the matter of there being a general increase in atheism and as we have seen there is a general decrease in criminal behaviour, are we now obliged to reverse the original conclusion in the op and grant that atheists are now the cause of better behaviour?

Since the original conclusion was based on nothing but a single correlation I would say no.


You mean to say 30% of Christian’s have been in prison, or did I misunderstand that?

“By the FBI definition, that is correct. But the term ‘criminal record’ is ambiguous, and the FBI definition is different from the common-sense definition. His claim may have been interpreted by some to mean one-third of adults have a criminal conviction. That’s not true.”

I found a good site here,

The protestants seem to be the main chunk of that.

Well the world did not tell them that either.

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