Infertility question


#1

To All,

I will keep this as short as possible. I don’t like reading super long threads either.

My wife and I have been married almost 4 years. She is 40, I am 35. She had surgery for fibroid removal (Myomectomy) last month. She also had a septum of the uterus. Docs won’t give guarantees because of her age… whatever. She is young!!

The surgery went find, perfect according to the docs. I thought after the surgery “conception” would be up to us. But, they are talking about checking her ovaries and tubes and everything to make sure it is all functioning properly. No problem. Then he mentions wanting to start, after ensuring eggs are produced and available, “Intrauterine Insemination” IUI I think.

I have talked with a lot of folks in my parish, and researched the web. There is no approval or disapproval on this procedure. They are essentially helping us conceive, in my wifes body. No labs. No eggs or embryo or fetus will be discarded. Is this ok.? Has anyone else researched this?

Part of the rush is they can only work with us for a year. (military facility). I am praying to God that once we may start… you know… that He makes it happen in his time, but before the docs schedule.

In Him

ck

www.courage.myserver.org


#2

IUI is acceptable – it will not require any fertilized eggs to lanquish in frozen limbo. It helps the sperm by making them more able and ready to fertilize the egg or eggs.

The “washed” and prepared sperm are then placed within the uterus and that is it.

It is one of the few things that one can do enhance fertility without incurring sin. It is even advised that you have intercourse at home later in the day.

IUI is just a little boost for mother nature – if the Good Lord wants you to concieve you will. He will still be there to place the soul with the new life that might be created.

It didn’t work for us – but our case is very different. I will pray that all goes well.


#3

Thanks Mammamull!

I am sorry that it didn’t work for you guys. We also must prepare for that.

God Bless You!

ck


#4

Not a problem, we have happily adopted. It doesn’t solve infertility, but being parents was our goal.

Hang in there. Some day you can have sex without anyone else being involved:D


#5

[quote=Mamamull]IUI is acceptable – it will not require any fertilized eggs to lanquish in frozen limbo. It helps the sperm by making them more able and ready to fertilize the egg or eggs.

The “washed” and prepared sperm are then placed within the uterus and that is it.

It is one of the few things that one can do enhance fertility without incurring sin. It is even advised that you have intercourse at home later in the day.

IUI is just a little boost for mother nature – if the Good Lord wants you to concieve you will. He will still be there to place the soul with the new life that might be created.

It didn’t work for us – but our case is very different. I will pray that all goes well.
[/quote]

Dear ck,

My understanding of the acceptability of IUI is different than Mamamull’s. When my husband and I went through all of this 12 years ago, we learned that there are two basic criteria of fertility care:

  1. Conception must take place inside of the woman, and
  2. The conjugal act can not be replaced.

IUI clearly fills criteria #1, but not #2.

I might not understand all the workings of IUI, however.

Please read the article
Reproductive Technology by Dr. John Haas. Dr. Haas is the president of the National Catholic Bioethics Center in Boston, MA, and a consultant to the NCCB Committee for Pro‑Life Activities.

This may give you more insight. Also, read Donum Vitae, the article referenced by Dr. Haas.

Also, as a side note, you seem a bit miffed that the doctors think your wife is “old” at 40. Like it or not, women’s bodies are not at their peek for reproduction that late in life. Yes, it’s done alot–with much technological help. Please keep that in mind as well.

Like Mamamull, my husband and I wound up adopting. Again, our goal was to be parents. God bless you both on this tough journey.

Debbie


#6

I too disagree with IUI being licit.

The marital embrace is taken out of the equation. Also you have to be careful that you’re in compliance when you provide the sperm. The only acceptable way to provide sperm is through the use of a perforated condom used during the marital act. Any masturbation or ejaculation outside of the vagina is not a licit manner of retrieval.

There is a reason the Church has not ruled in favor of IUI yet…they don’t have the information to say it’s licit.

One thing you can look at is researching information on NaPro Technology. “Natural Procreative Technology” offered by the Pope Paul VI Institute in Omaha, NE (depending on where you are, there may be a Fertility Care Center in your area). These people specialize in assisting women with reproduction issues with the added benefit that they are completely in accordance with the Magisterium.

My DH (38) and I (35) have gone thru much of the same, minus the myomectomy, but we have tube patency issue along with 1 fully blocked tube and the one time we did achieve conception we lost the child in week 7. We have yet to conceive again. Believe me if IUI were licit we would be using it. It’s been a long, hard, sorrowful journey.

If you think about it, there is nothing natural about washing sperm and injecting it into a woman’s uterus.

Have you read Life Giving Love by Kimberly Hahn. It’s got some wonderful stuff that has really helped us deal with our infertility issues.

On a side note, we are undergoing the process needed to obtain assistance from the Pope Paul VI Institute.


#7

should probably not comment about a procedure I know little about, but just from your description, if the sperm enter the woman’s body by any means except the natural way, the procedure is illicit by definition. repeat, repeat, repeat, you don’t go to strangers on a chatroom for moral guidance especially on a tricky issue like this. We have priests for this.


#8

Puzzleannie,

Thanks for your input. However, I don’t think you should be so hard on someone that is just trying to educate themselves WHILE waiting for an appt with a priest and a Catholic Doctor. I have already done extensive research myself, but it is all conflicting. Even that from my own parish priest.

This is a very sensitive issue, and I know that some people may have experience it and maybe even researched it. No where in my post did I say “please tell me what to do and I will do it”.

Understanding is helpful.

God Bless you for trying.

ck


#9

This practice was covered in a previous thread. And yes, it can be done morally and does not necessarily occur apart from the conjugal act.

Hope this helps…

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=29370


#10

Now that was helpful. Thanks Ham1. The doctor I was waiting to hear from backs this up.

Again, the only reason I think the docs are wanting to jump to this is the age factor. Now I just have to figure out how to tell our doctor and do this the right way.

Keep us in your prayers!

ck


#11

Ham1

I would be interested in how it is you for the opinion that sperm washing and injection into the uterus is not apart from the conjugal act? Seem separate if you ask me, even if you have sex prior to the IUI and after the IUI, it is still inserting sperm into the uterus in a way other than the conjugal act.

Donum Vitea is very clear, but not in stating that IUI is licit. It says

“Artificial insemination as a substitute for the conjugal act is prohibited by reason of the voluntarily achieved dissociation of the two meanings of the conjugal act. Masturbation, through which the sperm is normally obtained, is another sign of this dissociation: even when it is done for the purpose of procreation, the act remains deprived of its unitive meaning”

There are two things they are saying MUST take place to be licit.

1, the conjugal act. Any type of artificial injection of sperm takes the conjugal act out of procreation.

A separate issue also showing that it is illicit is:

  1. Masturbation as a means of obtaining the sperm.

So even if you morally obtain the sperm, you are still NOT satisfying the criteria of the CONJUGAL ACT. Still not in cooperation with the reproductive plan that God created.

Courage_to_ride:

Arm yourself with the Rosary as you wade yourself thru the muck on this one. It’s an issue that is passionate. With those passions we can easily be blinded to Truth. I think especially with this issue because how after all can wanting a child so badly be wrong? It isn’t. How we go about cooperating with God in the creation of life has moral issues though when we introduce any type of artificial reproduction technologies (ART).

Pray pray pray…and keep in mind all the while that if you are not adhereing to the follow two rules, as previously stated, you are no longer working in accordance to the way God structured our co-creation with Him.

  1. Conception must take place inside of the woman, and
  2. The conjugal act can not be replaced.

I know the weight of these issues…please please please look into Pope Paul VI Institute.

Here are some links to take a look at:

ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/ZINFERTL.HTM

ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/INFERT.TXT

popepaulvi.com/


#12

I think you missed this part:

"Homologous artificial insemination within marriage cannot be admitted **except for those cases in which the technical means is not a substitute for the conjugal act but serves to facilitate and to help so that the act attains its natural purpose. ** "

Under your definition any type of insemination is not part of the conjugal act and would therefore not be allowed. That is not what Donum Vitae states as bolded above.

And this:

“If the technical means facilitates the conjugal act or helps it to reach its natural objectives, it can be morally acceptable. If, on the other hand, the procedure were to replace the conjugal act, it is morally illicit.”

In the discussion we are having, the conjugal act is assisted and not replaced in achieving it’s designed end. Thus, it is a morally legitimate action.

There are many other sources that can be found that document the criteria under which homologous artificial insemination may be morally chosen.

Hope this helps!


#13

I feel for you. I am sorry about the fertility problems. I got a taste of what it is like because I waited 3 yrs. for my first child and 4 yrs. for my second. I know what it is like to be wanting a child. For me, it involved a conversion to Christianity, so I very much associate God with getting pregnant. Long story that I won’t go into right now.

You mentioned that you thought conception would be up to you. Do you already know about NFP? I was thinking that maybe the two of you could pray together and do all that you can spiritually (Adoration, frequent confession, confession, read the Bible, pray the Rosary) and give nfp a try for a few months. I’ve heard of success stories. Maybe your wife and you can detect the fertile times and can give the natural way another chance now that the physical problems have been treated.

I think I’d try to co-operate with God’s timing. I don’t know Church Teaching on it though. NFP seems pretty good to me because the book on it also explains how diet and other things affect fertility. I pray that it is God’s will for you to have children.


#14

Dear Courage,
Am late to this thread.
To be brief: the morality of IUI has not been decided on, w/
opinions of Catholic ethicists on both sides of the "licit/illicit"
answers.
My opinion: IUI is NOT licit (it is illicit/immoral)

  1. Most certainly we are talking about at least TWO separate acts in trying to bring for conception. - the marital act and collecting of the sperm, THEN, after processing the sperm in the fluid the doctors use is inserted via catheter by a doc/tech in an act separate from the conjugal act. SO, the unitive and procreative act are separated and thus the procedure is illicit. The doctor/tech in the most immediate and intimate of ways is the one who does the fertilization.
  2. Without explanation, I’ll just posit that there are some real moral question regarding the collection method using a perforated condom.
    Peace

#15

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