Inherent Sin v. Death in relation to the Fall of Man


#1

Out of curiosity, how do Roman Catholics come to their conclusion of the of everyone being born with inherent sin?

The Holy Fathers, hold that when Adam sinned against God, he introduced death to the world. Since all men are born of the same human stock as Adam, all men inherit death. Death means that the life of every human being comes to an end (mortality); but also that death generates in us the passions (anger, hate, lust, greed, etc.), disease and aging. As do Orthodox.

I guess what I'm asking is, how come in the West the developed a completely different understanding of the Adam and Eve situation and who in the West came up with this idea?


#2

[quote="St_Olav, post:1, topic:278067"]
Out of curiosity, how do Roman Catholics come to their conclusion of the of everyone being born with inherent sin?

The Holy Fathers, hold that when Adam sinned against God, he introduced death to the world. Since all men are born of the same human stock as Adam, all men inherit death. Death means that the life of every human being comes to an end (mortality); but also that death generates in us the passions (anger, hate, lust, greed, etc.), disease and aging. As do Orthodox.

I guess what I'm asking is, how come in the West the developed a completely different understanding of the Adam and Eve situation and who in the West came up with this idea?

[/quote]

St Olav,

I would love to hear Catholic comments on this topic. I really don't understand why no one has answered.

Great question.

Peace,
Anna


#3

QUOTE=St Olav;9098006
Death means that the life of every human being comes to an end (mortality); but also that death generates in us the passions (anger, hate, lust, greed, etc.), disease and aging. As do Orthodox.

II have always thought that perhaps death is possible by mistaking ourselves for human beings, rather than seeing these passing forms we wear as instruments of experience. These instruments do in fact die, but my belief is that we are far more than that. So, we see ourselves as these bodies rather than that which transcends the mutability of the incessant bestial drama with which we identify. Perhaps this is original sin.

Your friend,
Sufjon


#4

[quote="Sufjon, post:3, topic:278067"]
II have always thought that perhaps death is possible by mistaking ourselves for human beings, rather than seeing these passing forms we wear as instruments of experience. These instruments do in fact die, but my belief is that we are far more than that. So, we see ourselves as these bodies rather than that which transcends the mutability of the incessant bestial drama with which we identify. Perhaps this is original sin.

Your friend,
Sufjon

[/quote]

This sounds accurate. We certailnly do not see clearly who, and especially what, we are, or "am." It is too bad this person was banned. He sounds like a voice of sanity.


#5

I have to wonder as well. There are alternate explanations for the Fall, I have heard at least two, both of which make sense and might lend some verity to the Bible tale as teaching or historic points.


#6

[quote="St_Olav, post:1, topic:278067"]
Out of curiosity, how do Roman Catholics come to their conclusion of the of everyone being born with inherent sin?

The Holy Fathers, hold that when Adam sinned against God, he introduced death to the world. Since all men are born of the same human stock as Adam, all men inherit death. Death means that the life of every human being comes to an end (mortality); but also that death generates in us the passions (anger, hate, lust, greed, etc.), disease and aging. As do Orthodox.

I guess what I'm asking is, how come in the West the developed a completely different understanding of the Adam and Eve situation and who in the West came up with this idea?

[/quote]

St Augustine's views had a lot to do with it-including his understanding of Rom 5:12-although his views were developed from those of earlier fathers. In Catholic thought, concupiscence-uncontrolled passions- came about as a result of man losing control of himself by, ironically, trying to take control-all the control-and exclude God from being the chief "controller". Man lost something by disobedience of God-God was no longer his god so to speak, and a separation or rift took place. Reason no longer necessarily prevailed over man's actions and a disharmony within him was the result. So both death and a tendency to sin were consequences of the Fall.

And this concept makes senses to me because I don't think that death-and the definitive timeline of life it traps us into-appears to be the sole reason for our sin. Even as Christians, fully convinced of the reality of eternal life, the pull to sin remains, in spite of the fact that the impulses involved often contradict reason. Moral evil (sin) is unreasonable, according to Catholic teaching. It doesn't need a reason-and death, by itself, doesn't provide an adequate reason either. People do some of the worst things imaginable in spite of their mortality-perhaps in denial of it in fact-this is how we live our lives, always thinking they're benefiting in some way-procuring some good-by their acts. Sin is rebelliousness-it pursues it's own course.


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