Innocent and Non-Innocent Protestants, and Zachariah and St Joseph


#1

Innocent and Non-Innocent Protestants, and Zachariah and St Joseph

Formal and Material Heresy, and Zachariah and St. Joseph

Zachariah can be like a formal heretic, and st joseph, a material heretic, as follows:

Zachariah disbelieves the message from God, because of ill will, his rejection of God's truth is CULPABLE. "How will I know...?"

St Joseph in the first case is OBJECTIVELY in error, but not culpable for it, (he thinks Mary has been playing around, but he cannot be faulted. How the heck is he supposed to know that God has performed one of the greatest miracles of history in Her womb. But he is enlightened by God's messenger, he DOES believe. Also, he is not judgemental, like a Pharisee, rather than subject Mary to cruel stoning, he resolves, out of genuine love, to put her away quietly. Later, he is IGNORANT of Herod's threat to the child, like an innocent heretic can be ignorant of certain things through no fault of his own. St Joseph never could have known of Herod's plans in time, had not the MESSENGER of God told him.)

Hence, the MONTHS that separate events, both of the culpable one in error, and the non culpable one in error and innocently ignorant, give a SPIRITUAL meaning to the FIVE MONTHS of Protestantism APoclaypse 9, fifth trumpet:

Presumptuous culpable heretics, the ones who are in error but out of their own fault, are the torturing locusts, and the innocent heretics, who are not culpable for their errors and ignorance because they understandably do not trust the Catholic Church because of its moral corruption, are tortured by the SPIRITUAL dimension of five months, the five sacraments they lack because they are objectively outside the Church.

Too, like St Joseph, relative to the Christ, their visible blood does not run in Christ's body, since they are separated visibly, but they BELONG to Christ's Body by indirect affiliation, just as St Joseph's literal blood does not run in Christ, but he is ASSOCIATED with His family as a foster father.

Interesting, huh?

Addendum: The formal heretic does NOT listen to God’s Messengers ,who are the BISHOPS, and CULPABLY so, but St. Joseph does, meaning, an innocent heretic would convert if a messenger properly his erros to him, per St. Augustine on heresy.


#2

Then are all doubts heresy?


#3

[quote="Polycarp1, post:2, topic:312364"]
Then are all doubts heresy?

[/quote]

no, but just using an analogy


#4

[quote="spauline, post:1, topic:312364"]
Innocent and Non-Innocent Protestants, and Zachariah and St Joseph

Formal and Material Heresy, and Zachariah and St. Joseph

Zachariah can be like a formal heretic, and st joseph, a material heretic, as follows:

Zachariah disbelieves the message from God, because of ill will, his rejection of God's truth is CULPABLE. "How will I know...?"

St Joseph in the first case is OBJECTIVELY in error, but not culpable for it, (he thinks Mary has been playing around, but he cannot be faulted. How the heck is he supposed to know that God has performed one of the greatest miracles of history in Her womb. But he is enlightened by God's messenger, he DOES believe. Also, he is not judgemental, like a Pharisee, rather than subject Mary to cruel stoning, he resolves, out of genuine love, to put her away quietly. Later, he is IGNORANT of Herod's threat to the child, like an innocent heretic can be ignorant of certain things through no fault of his own. St Joseph never could have known of Herod's plans in time, had not the MESSENGER of God told him.)

Hence, the MONTHS that separate events, both of the culpable one in error, and the non culpable one in error and innocently ignorant, give a SPIRITUAL meaning to the FIVE MONTHS of Protestantism APoclaypse 9, fifth trumpet:

Presumptuous culpable heretics, the ones who are in error but out of their own fault, are the torturing locusts, and the innocent heretics, who are not culpable for their errors and ignorance because they understandably do not trust the Catholic Church because of its moral corruption, are tortured by the SPIRITUAL dimension of five months, the five sacraments they lack because they are objectively outside the Church.

Too, like St Joseph, relative to the Christ, their visible blood does not run in Christ's body, since they are separated visibly, but they BELONG to Christ's Body by indirect affiliation, just as St Joseph's literal blood does not run in Christ, but he is ASSOCIATED with His family as a foster father.

Interesting, huh?

Addendum: The formal heretic does NOT listen to God’s Messengers ,who are the BISHOPS, and CULPABLY so, but St. Joseph does, meaning, an innocent heretic would convert if a messenger properly his erros to him, per St. Augustine on heresy.

[/quote]

I think it is worth noting that you are arguing about St. Joseph based on one Traditional interpretation of what took place. (The church has not put forth a definitive interpretation on this specific issue as far a I know)

There is a not so well known Tradition that St. Joseph wanted to leave because of the fear he felt in accepting such a responsibility.

Because if you note Matthew states the following

When his mother Mary had been engaged to Joseph, but before they lived together, she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit. Her husband Joseph, being a righteous man and unwilling to expose her to public disgrace, planned to dismiss her quietly.

Now the issue here is that Joseph would have indeed been righteous had he exposed Mary as being with Child. So it does not make sense unless we read back our own sensibilities after 2000 years in to the story that St. Joseph thought "Mary was pregnant illicitly, I am compassionate, so I will abandon secretly".

It seems more likely that Joseph being righteous, felt fear in becoming the father/care-taker of the Son of God and spouse of Mary who was chosen to carry him and give birth to him. Perhaps out of a feeling of unworthiness.

This also fits well with ancient prophets and figures that God chose to carry out a mission who always first humbled themselves before God.


#5

[quote="Eufrosnia, post:4, topic:312364"]
I think it is worth noting that you are arguing about St. Joseph based on one Traditional interpretation of what took place. (The church has not put forth a definitive interpretation on this specific issue as far a I know)

There is a not so well known Tradition that St. Joseph wanted to leave because of the fear he felt in accepting such a responsibility.

Because if you note Matthew states the following

Now the issue here is that Joseph would have indeed been righteous had he exposed Mary as being with Child. So it does not make sense unless we read back our own sensibilities after 2000 years in to the story that St. Joseph thought "Mary was pregnant illicitly, I am compassionate, so I will abandon secretly".

It seems more likely that Joseph being righteous, felt fear in becoming the father/care-taker of the Son of God and spouse of Mary who was chosen to carry him and give birth to him. Perhaps out of a feeling of unworthiness.

This also fits well with ancient prophets and figures that God chose to carry out a mission who always first humbled themselves before God.

[/quote]

oh, ok, i didn't know this


#6

[quote="spauline, post:5, topic:312364"]
oh, ok, i didn't know this

[/quote]

Understandable. I did not know this too till I read about it. The other view seems to be the more prominent one you usually hear.


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