Intercession of the saints and mary


#1

Hey Guys! Uh…just a thought but…in John 16:25-27 isn’t it saying that we will ask in HIS name? It doesn’t mention intercession of the saints or Mary. He just says HIS name. Jesus is saying that we will ask and his name and that he won’t even have to ask the Father in our behalf because God loves us because we loved his Son, Jesus. So if Jesus doesn’t have to ask the father in our behalf why would we have to ask Mary or a saint to ask God on our behalf if Jesus doesn’t. Or why would we half to ask Mary or a saint to ask Jesus for us? If you are a Christian you have a relationship with Christ…typically in a relationship you need to be able to communicate directly in order for it to be a good relationship. On the flipside, if you had a friend that you never saw and in order to communicate with them you had a person who would deliver your messages to them orally…how strong would that relationship be and how long do you think it would hold up? Anyways…just a thought:)

Vaughn aka Ryan


#2

[quote=barsapp]May be this help you:

Leo XIII’s Octobri Mense, September 22, 1891: “The Eternal Son of God, about to take upon Him our nature for the saving and ennobling of man, and about to consummate thus a mystical union between Himself and all mankind, did not accomplish His design without adding there the free consent of the elect Mother, who represented in some sort all human kind, according to the illustrious and just opinion of St. Thomas, who says that the Annunciation was effected with the consent of the Virgin standing in the place of humanity.[5] With equal truth may it be also affirmed that, by the will of God, Mary is the intermediary through whom is distributed unto us this immense treasure of mercies gathered by God, for mercy and truth were created by Jesus Christ.[6] Thus as no man goeth to the Father but by the Son, so no man goeth to Christ but by His Mother.”
[/quote]


#3

[quote=Vaughn7107]Hey Guys! Uh…just a thought but…in John 16:25-27 isn’t it saying that we will ask in HIS name? It doesn’t mention intercession of the saints or Mary. He just says HIS name. Jesus is saying that we will ask and his name and that he won’t even have to ask the Father in our behalf because God loves us because we loved his Son, Jesus. So if Jesus doesn’t have to ask the father in our behalf why would we have to ask Mary or a saint to ask God on our behalf if Jesus doesn’t. Or why would we half to ask Mary or a saint to ask Jesus for us? If you are a Christian you have a relationship with Christ…typically in a relationship you need to be able to communicate directly in order for it to be a good relationship. On the flipside, if you had a friend that you never saw and in order to communicate with them you had a person who would deliver your messages to them orally…how strong would that relationship be and how long do you think it would hold up? Anyways…just a thought:)

Vaughn aka Ryan
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Praying to saints is a way of strengthening your realationship with God. Have you ever had a friend get mad at you and another one of your friends helped settle the situation? And we should not pray exclussivly to the saints. We need to direct most of our prayers to God. Have you read CA apologetics section on praying to saints? It ansewers alot of questions people have about praying to saints.


#4

Hi Ryan,

Here is a very good article on the intercession of saints that will give you a basic understanding of why we believe this and then this article will give you the historical facts about the ECF believing the same thing.

Bear in mind that if intercession by others was wrong then the NT would not have commanded us to pray for one another. (See James 5:16)
Pax tecum,


#5

You’re exactly right! WE do ask all things in His name.

Yes. We.

We. You, me, Fred, George, St. Mary, St. Paul, John the Baptist, and even Marco Polo. We are all to ask our prayers in the name of Christ. So let us do as Christ asks us, call out to our Christian brethren, living on earth or in heaven, to join in our prayers imploring Christ our intercessor.

Josh


#6

[quote=Vaughn7107]Hey Guys! Uh…just a thought but…in John 16:25-27 isn’t it saying that we will ask in HIS name? It doesn’t mention intercession of the saints or Mary. He just says HIS name. Jesus is saying that we will ask and his name and that he won’t even have to ask the Father in our behalf because God loves us because we loved his Son, Jesus. So if Jesus doesn’t have to ask the father in our behalf why would we have to ask Mary or a saint to ask God on our behalf if Jesus doesn’t. Or why would we half to ask Mary or a saint to ask Jesus for us? If you are a Christian you have a relationship with Christ…typically in a relationship you need to be able to communicate directly in order for it to be a good relationship. On the flipside, if you had a friend that you never saw and in order to communicate with them you had a person who would deliver your messages to them orally…how strong would that relationship be and how long do you think it would hold up? Anyways…just a thought:)

Vaughn aka Ryan
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Hi Vaughn;

I don’t know if I can add more than what’s already been said, other than to restate that Catholics don’t “have” to pray to the saints, we simply acknowledge that we CAN pray to the saints and ask them to add their prayers to God with our own. It’s just like when Protestants ask their fellow brothers and sisters sitting with them in the pews to pray with them to God.

Peace :smiley:


#7

Hey Guys! Uh…just a thought but…in John 16:25-27 isn’t it saying that we will ask in HIS name?

Yes, which is why every prayer, even the Rosary, for example, begins… “***In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit…” ***:wink:


#8

so asking the saints and Mary to pray on your behalf isn’t asking them to pray in order for you to communicate with God?..in other words you don’t have Mary and saints intercede for you so that you may get your personal prayers through to God?

Vaughn aka Ryan


#9

[quote=Vaughn7107]so asking the saints and Mary to pray on your behalf isn’t asking them to pray in order for you to communicate with God?..in other words you don’t have Mary and saints intercede for you so that you may get your personal prayers through to God?

Vaughn aka Ryan
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Exactly Ryan! I for instance, talk to G-d the Father daily…but if I feel I want someone else’s help…just like you might ask your deacon on good friend to pray for you, I’ll ask a saint. It is rare that I pull out that powerful prayer…I am praying for the conversion of my husband recently, and asking Mary for help.

Remember…only one Saint made it to the foot of the cross, and the others ran and hid in fear…but the one who made it was holding Mary’s hand


#10

so do you ask saints to pray and not other brother’s and sister’s in Christ? or both?


#11

It seems people here don’t like the Catholic Answers Tracts. :yawn:

:sleep:


#12

[quote=Vaughn7107]so do you ask saints to pray and not other brother’s and sister’s in Christ? or both?
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both


#13

[quote=Vaughn7107]Hey Guys! Uh…just a thought but…in John 16:25-27 isn’t it saying that we will ask in HIS name? It doesn’t mention intercession of the saints or Mary. He just says HIS name. Jesus is saying that we will ask and his name and that he won’t even have to ask the Father in our behalf because God loves us because we loved his Son, Jesus. So if Jesus doesn’t have to ask the father in our behalf why would we have to ask Mary or a saint to ask God on our behalf if Jesus doesn’t. Or why would we half to ask Mary or a saint to ask Jesus for us? If you are a Christian you have a relationship with Christ…typically in a relationship you need to be able to communicate directly in order for it to be a good relationship. On the flipside, if you had a friend that you never saw and in order to communicate with them you had a person who would deliver your messages to them orally…how strong would that relationship be and how long do you think it would hold up? Anyways…just a thought:)

Vaughn aka Ryan
[/quote]

Intercession by Mary on our behalf is prefigured in the story of the Marriage Feast at Cana, in John’s gospel. When Jesus says to Mary from the cross, “Woman, behold your son,” referring to John and, in principle, the Church, He uses the same “Woman” title He used at Cana, so that His words there comprised her official appointment to the position of Intercessor.

Who needs an intercessor?

The process is somewhat mysterious. In essence, I think that God allows us to participate in the salvation process.

Pray for me.


#14

Aren’t the saints in Heaven seen in Revelations offering up our prayers to God?? Would my prayers have more emphasis if I am joined by the heavenly host??? Would they have more emphasis if the Mother of Our Lord was joining me in prayer??? Don’t my questions have more emphasis when I use three or more question marks???

NotWorthy


#15

all of you guys said it really well. Mary is just like any one of our brothers or sisters in Christ on earth that we ask to pray for us…she’s just the most Holy, most exalted, and physically and spiritually closest to God sister in Christ:)


#16

Jesus Christ: "The one who welcomes you welcomes Me, and the one who welcomes Me welcomes Him who sent Me" (Matt 10:40)

It’s not Jesus or the saints. You can welcom both. In fact, by receiving those in Christ, you receive Christ.

See also:** Can saints hear our prayers?** - View


#17

[quote=NotWorthy]Aren’t the saints in Heaven seen in Revelations offering up our prayers to God?? Would my prayers have more emphasis if I am joined by the heavenly host??? Would they have more emphasis if the Mother of Our Lord was joining me in prayer??? Don’t my questions have more emphasis when I use three or more question marks???

NotWorthy
[/quote]

what if you don’t have to ask them to pray for you? what if they do that anyways wether you ask them to or not? I get so much more out of praying to my Creator. In order to have Mary and the saints pray for you…don’t you kind of pray to them to pray for you? sorry I am really bad at understanding all of this please be patient with me.

Vaughn aka Ryan


#18

[quote=Vaughn7107]what if you don’t have to ask them to pray for you? what if they do that anyways wether you ask them to or not? I get so much more out of praying to my Creator. In order to have Mary and the saints pray for you…don’t you kind of pray to them to pray for you? sorry I am really bad at understanding all of this please be patient with me.

Vaughn aka Ryan
[/quote]

Well Ryan, you are just full of good questions! Way to go! :smiley:

Have a look at Hebrews 12:1 which says, “Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,” Now notice that we are here talking about witnesses to our personal race for the Lord, right? I sort of see this as a huge stadium in which all the saints are watching me run my race and cheering me on, which could consist of both encouraging yells and their intercessory prayers. It’s really hard for me to read this verse and see them all just sitting there stone faced and disinterested…That just doesn’t make any sense to me.

Our “prayers” to the saints are indeed requests for them to join us in prayer for whatever we are needing from God. I mean, their souls are right there in His presence, and I (frankly) can (always) use all the help I can get.

BTW, did you happen to notice that John’s gospel (ch 2) doesn’t say that anyone asked the Blessed Virgin to intercede with Jesus for the couple? So I guess the saint’s intercession for we members of the “Church Militant” (They are called the “Church Triumphant”) doesn’t really have to be by request, and I like that too since they are praying for the rest of us all the time too. :cool: huh?
Pax tecum,


#19

[quote=Vaughn7107]Hey Guys! Uh…just a thought but…in John 16:25-27 isn’t it saying that we will ask in HIS name? It doesn’t mention intercession of the saints or Mary. He just says HIS name. Jesus is saying that we will ask and his name and that he won’t even have to ask the Father in our behalf because God loves us because we loved his Son, Jesus. So if Jesus doesn’t have to ask the father in our behalf why would we have to ask Mary or a saint to ask God on our behalf if Jesus doesn’t. Or why would we half to ask Mary or a saint to ask Jesus for us? If you are a Christian you have a relationship with Christ…typically in a relationship you need to be able to communicate directly in order for it to be a good relationship. On the flipside, if you had a friend that you never saw and in order to communicate with them you had a person who would deliver your messages to them orally…how strong would that relationship be and how long do you think it would hold up? Anyways…just a thought:)

Vaughn aka Ryan
[/quote]

Even the most prominent Fundimentalist will say that you are reading into the text.

Furthermore, we don’t HAVE to ask Mary, or any other saint for intercession. We can go directly to God, which is what all Catholics do. For example. The rosary has 53 Hail Marys in it. It has one Hail Holy Queen. Those are 54 Marian prayers. But, there are 6 different prayers directly to God and most are repeated several times. If you count the repeats, it isn’t as many as Marian prayers, but it is 23 prayers.
Gotcha there! :smiley: Anyway, you asked for ChessusPowerKid. You gave a scanty offer of a piece of cake. That shows that you are losing the financial battle. I don’t know about the rest of THEM, but you are fighting a steep uphill battle :stuck_out_tongue:


#20

[quote=Vaughn7107]what if you don’t have to ask them to pray for you? what if they do that anyways wether you ask them to or not? I get so much more out of praying to my Creator. In order to have Mary and the saints pray for you…don’t you kind of pray to them to pray for you? sorry I am really bad at understanding all of this please be patient with me.

Vaughn aka Ryan
[/quote]

One of the most common misperceptions (IMO) is that Catholics teach that you MUST pray to Mary and the Saints in order to gain Salvation. Catholics do NOT teach this. We encourage the faithful to pray in any way they feel comfortable, as long as it doesn’t violate doctrines, (i.e. worshiping idols and such).

So, do the Saints pray for us without our prayer requests? I’m sure they do. Should we use the saints and Mary to help us focus on the Glory of God? Only if that’s what we feel comfortable doing.

For instance, while saying the rosary, Catholics are taught to focus on the life of Jesus throught the series of mysteries (joyful, sorrowful, glorious, & luminous). I like to repeat the prayer of St. Francis, because it helps me focus on the Christ-like qualities that St. Francis had, thus teaching me how to be more Christ-like. “Where there is doubt, Faith. Where there is despair, Hope…”

NotWorthy


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