Interesting article from a gay man about the abuse


#65

He does realise the Church already forbids

right? That’s a distortion of the truth.


#66

:frowning: This article saddens me.

Some telling things. “the psychic energy needed to contain homosexual drives is far greater than that needed by the straying heterosexual,” says Fr. James Lloyd.

Contain? Psychic energy? What Fr. Lloyd is describing is repression of our sexual drives. Repression does NOT WORK. Chastity is NOT about repression. Chastity is enabled through self-knowledge and is cultivated from experience. Through trial and error, you cultivate the virtue of chastity through the knowledge you gain by making mistakes. There is no chastity learned by simply shaming yourself out of making mistakes.

Society puts a whole lot of pressure on homosexuals for remotely making sexual mistakes than it does on heterosexuals. As such, it encourages gross amounts of repression that make it harder for people to learn how to manage their sexual drives. But it also fails heterosexuals too because we also give chastity advice that presumes sexual urges are universal. Men’s drives are presumed to be stronger than women’s. As such, a woman who has a strong sex drive is considered less feminine and is slut-shamed. This discourages women with strong sexual drives to remain in the Church because they are not expected to have the struggles with chastity in the first place. Thus they are left with abandoning chastity and the Church.

In the meantime, because we consider men basically victims to their sex-drives, we put SO MUCH responsibility on women to keep men chaste. Men are held socially responsible for the sins of men. And indeed, so much of helping men heterosexual men remain chaste–especially heterosexual priests–is about segregated the sexes in addition to modesty.

In the meantime, we use marriage as a tool to manage male sexual desires further by making the wife a way to manage his sexual urge. In the past (and still circulated in some circles) is the idea that the wife is culpable for any sins against chastity her husband commits if she refuses his sexual advances. The woman is treated as the only appropriate sexual vessel for men. This fuels marital rape. The woman who is shamed into sexual submission is being raped by her husband which thus fuels the idea that women do not like sex. It’s because we’re not making love but are being objectified by our spouses.

So much of this is tied to purity culture which we WRONGFULLY assume is about chastity. Purity culture views sexual inexperience as a virtue and does not recognize that chastity is cultivated over time through making mistakes. Indeed, you do not begin as a chaste person. You DEVELOP chastity. Cultivating chastity is kind of like learning how to ride a bike. You WILL fall off and skin your knee. If you fear these mistakes, you will never learn it.

The big thing about homosexuals in the priesthood is that the priesthood is a boys club. Imagine if the priesthood was coed. Imagine if women were seminarians. Imagine if they were assigned roommates in such dorms type settings. Imagine that restrooms and showers weren’t segregated by sex. What do you expect would happen?


#67

I wouldn’t necessarily call a man who mostly preys on female children and has little interest in women “heterosexual” since, as some psychologists have pointed out, such a person doesn’t really have an adult sexual orientation. Such a person might not have developed a capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults and are kind of in a separate category from others who are called “heterosexual.” The same logic applies to men who are mostly attracted to male children. I wouldn’t call them “homosexual.” And some people try to make a distinction between whether the children are pre-pubescent or post-pubescent, but I still don’t think someone is normal if they’re mostly attracted to children who are 13 or 14.


#68

Most of these things would require a lot of convincing and explanation even for other Christians who aren’t Catholic. The notion that all sex even between husbands and wives must end in intercourse would not find much support from most Protestants, for example.


#69

People trying to convince me that sex between persons of the same sex is fine are not in the least bit worried about whether I’m going to think they are “total weirdos,” nor are they going to think they are shoving their “atheist ideologies” on me. I think that as long as I’m willing to listen to them–that is, as long as I’m not calling them names or accusing them of bad intentions–we’ll be able to talk. Mutually attempting the socratic method can actually be mutually profitable. If we both start with the idea that the other is ignorant, well, we can work with that as long as we each believe the other to be willing to learn.

I don’t have to use the term “natural law” or get others to sign on for some particular philosophy lock, stock and barrel. I am only saying that the truths we are talking about are accessible by human intellect without recourse to divine revelation. People can (and have) arrived at these truths independently of an assent to an monotheistic understanding.


#70

I know of at least one priest who targeted both adolescent girls and grown women who were in a vulnerable state. He was heterosexual, but he was also a very confused man. When a priest does things that aren’t likely to get him thrown in jail, that doesn’t mean he still doesn’t do a lot of damage…as in victims who suffer from depression and can barely go to church anymore.


#71

I think it is a matter of ongoing education and reminders. That’s what our diocesan sex-abuse-prevention training is meant to achieve.


#72

People, gay does not equal pedophilia. I know a good number of gay men. A good number of them really can’t stand having kid noises around, much less want to do whatever demented stuff some of you are using to explain these sex scandals away. Do some prefer younger men, for sure. But where’s the last time an SI swimsuit edition ever have older women in it?


#73

These scandals are horrible, but not all SSA guys are predators :pensive:


#74

Most people are very well aware. Most rape in general is men raping women, but no one thinks hetereosexual men are just inherently rapists.


#75

So homosexual activity is a choice? Of course it is. All actions are something we choose to do.

Yes I do. People just make up excuses for why the evidence doesn’t mean the obvious. Anyone who knows anything about the decadence of pride parades knows that homosexual activity is associated with hyper sexuality.


#76

He mention some clinical study or something that proved it.


#77

And heterosexual activity is also associated with hypersexuality. It used to be called nymphomania when referring to women and satyriasis when referring to men. But that doesn’t mean that all or even most heterosexuals are hypersexual and being hypersexual does not necessarily make someone more inclined to be a sexual predator.


#78

exnihilo apparently seems to think that people with SSA are more likely to be predators, including you and I.


#79

Even if the rate is a bit higher, the vast majority know where their genitalia belong. Remember the scandal mostly is about cover ups, not the priests. You are defending the institution not the victims.


#80

How am I defending the institution by mentioning a study?


#81

Because by implication you are focused on the priest’s behaviors, not how the institution failed to address it. The scandal is that the church basically aided and participated in it by continuing to let them serve and covering it up.


#82

070_bighanky but I dont want to hurt anyone


#83

Stopping the abuse before it happens will probably be very helpful and if it is linked with homosexuality it would be wise to fix the problem. I don’t what exactly happened with the coverups so I won’t dwell on it too much.


#84

Data is definitely not a bad thing but the need to have data for everything, especially the obvious, is a modern notion. Delaying action on the obvious while waiting for data is not a good thing in general. The vast amount of everything accepted by man has not be scientifically proven or pointed to by data in studies.


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