Interesting Conversation with a Calvinist


#1

Last week I worked a camp with a very Protestant slant. I was talking with one of the staff who happened to be a Baptist. She grew up in a more Arminian theology and now was very Calvinistic (going to a Reformed Theological Seminary taking classes). I just had to send her a few corrections to some statements I made concerning the Catholic position on the topic. *Salvation Controversy * is a great book BTW.

I do have some questions for those of you that might be from a TULIP background or Reformed Theology.

  1. Why do they think the Church changed after the Council of Orange?

  2. How do you refute “Once saved, always saved” to a person who follows TULIP? * (using only scripture)*

Thanks for any help!!


#2

[quote=picasso_13]2. How do you refute “Once saved, always saved” to a person who follows TULIP? * (using only scripture)*

[/quote]

“…continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matt 7:21).

There are many other verses of this nature.

They have countless, countless references which they claim support their thesis. You could take the time to refute each and every single one and then they still won’t agree with you. You’re best bet is to ask about how they came to accept sola scriptura and provide the Catholic reasoning for accepting the Magesterium and Tradition.


#3

I agree with quintessential5. The best way I’ve found to witness to Protestants is to remind them about where the N.T. came from - it was written BY the Catholic Church. Since they accept only the Bible as their authority, and since there are almost as many intrepretations of the Bible as there are readers (consider only the ‘primary’ divergent interpretations: JW, mormon, Christian Science, Course in Miracle-ism, and the complete Christian interpretation - the Catholic Faith), ask them HOW the N.T. came to be. From that point it goes right to ‘interpretation’, or - more precisely - the AUTHORITY to interpret. Does this authority reside in each individual (as Protestants believe) or in the believing community (as Catholics have ALWAYS maintained?

This leads right to 2 Pt 20-21. It’s interesting to have several translations of this verse available (KJV - esp the oldest!, NIV, JB, NAB, TEV) so the Protestant can actually see that doctrinal position INFLUENCES translation, which naturally leads to the whole topic of hermeneutics and the role of church authority in it.

Another major problem with “TULIP” is the idea that God has created some people to be damned no matter what they do or believe. For me, this is the biggest objection - I just can’t look at a newborn and believe that her Creator created her just to fry in Hell. There are a host of N.T. cites that refute this as well.

Keep us posted.


#4

The Douay-Rheims Bible is the oldest Bible and the best one. The KJV copied from the Douay Bible. No good Catholics dost calleth the Protestants’ Bible a good and godly book. Their Bible is full of haeresies and lies. Ist only good for use as toilet paper or possibly recycle it to make a good and true Bible.


#5

[quote=Catholic Eagle]The Douay-Rheims Bible is the oldest Bible and the best one. The KJV copied from the Douay Bible. No good Catholics dost calleth the Protestants’ Bible a good and godly book. Their Bible is full of haeresies and lies. Ist only good for use as toilet paper or possibly recycle it to make a good and true Bible.
[/quote]

Could you please tell me if you are quoting from some reliable source regarding these statements you have made or are they merely your own personal opinion.?


#6

[quote=Catholic Eagle]The Douay-Rheims Bible is the oldest Bible and the best one. The KJV copied from the Douay Bible. No good Catholics dost calleth the Protestants’ Bible a good and godly book. Their Bible is full of haeresies and lies. Ist only good for use as toilet paper or possibly recycle it to make a good and true Bible.
[/quote]


#7

Here is an article by James (Jimmy) Akin that might be helpful–

cin.org/users/james/files/tulip.htm


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