International House of Prayer


#1

I've been listening to some podcasts from the people involved in this group and wondered what others thought of them. By that I mean comments about them in particular, not so much generic stuff that would apply to any non-Catholic group.


#2

They may be associated with this group: crosspointschurch.com/ The thread earlier today, which was closed, seemed to describe something called Agape Fellowship which I encountered back in the 70's. Historically, they may all be related. A bit "off," and nothing Catholics want to be involved in.

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=7125


#3

[quote="LongJourney, post:2, topic:214044"]
They may be associated with this group: crosspointschurch.com/ The thread earlier today, which was closed, seemed to describe something called Agape Fellowship which I encountered back in the 70's. Historically, they may all be related. A bit "off," and nothing Catholics want to be involved in.

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=7125

[/quote]

I'm curious as to why you think there's a connection. In the podcasts I've listened to they've never mentioned any of these groups.

IHOP was founded in 1999.

I asked because they seem to be teaching some things that, while not specifically Catholic, seem closer to Catholic doctrine than other groups I've encountered. In one recording the speaker said something to the effect that he didn't know for certain what the Lord's Supper is but he knows it's more than just bread and wine. There have been some other statements I've heard but I can't remember them at the moment.


#4

Crosspoints used to be called Full Faith Church of Love. Name change-- more of the same. There is really little that is a :newidea: Even the early Mormons started out speaking in tongues (which is fine in moderation, I use it as an aid to meditation). Such things can be blown totally out of proportion.

IHOP's website, on the first line of their website, categorically rejects the Deuterocanonical books. I say that is a pretty strong indication of an anti-Catholic agenda.


#5

Why am I suddenly hungry for chocolate chip pancakes after these IHOP references? :smiley:


#6

[quote="LongJourney, post:4, topic:214044"]

IHOP's website, on the first line of their website, categorically rejects the Deuterocanonical books. I say that is a pretty strong indication of an anti-Catholic agenda.

[/quote]

I'm curious, but why does that indicate an anti-Catholic agenda?

I agree that it indicates they are not Catholic, I'm just wondering how this indicates an active opposition to the Catholic Church.


#7

[quote="Nine_Two, post:6, topic:214044"]
I'm curious, but why does that indicate an anti-Catholic agenda?

I agree that it indicates they are not Catholic, I'm just wondering how this indicates an active opposition to the Catholic Church.

[/quote]

Because it is placed in such a position of importance. If it were just there, it would not be a problem. However, it was one of the first things I saw.


#8

I think that the IHOP that you are referring to is a 24-hour prayer ministry pastored by Mike Bickle that was an outgrowth of a Kansas City, MO church.

Info on Mike Bickle, formerly pastor of the neo-charismatic Metro Christian Fellowship, which was formerly Kansas City Fellowship: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Bickle

Info on IHOP:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_House_of_Prayer

There's lots and lots on Mike Bickle and his former church on the internet. One thing you might search for is "Kansas City Prophets," a group of men who were thought to be prophets who were associated with Kansas City Fellowship.


#9

These criticisms have also come both from contemporary critic Rev. Keith Gibson, director of the Kansas City office of the Apologetics Resource Center and by a former Kansas City pastor, Rev. Ernie Gruen, who, in 1990, authored a report entitled "Documentation of the Aberrant Practices and Teaching of the Kansas City Fellowship (Grace Ministries).

That Ernie Gruen was pastor at Full Faith Church of Love. There was talk of a Kansas City Prophecy, that a charismatic movement would move out from KC and become very powerful. IMHO, one of those self-fulfilling things, if your faith is dependent on it, you will make it happen.

On September 14, 2010 IHOP (International House of Pancakes) announced that they were suing the International House of Prayer for trademark dilution and infringement.

I stay with the 2000 years of experience of the Catholic Church. Lot of accumulated wisdom there.


#10

[quote="Alan55, post:8, topic:214044"]
I think that the IHOP that you are referring to is a 24-hour prayer ministry pastored by Mike Bickle that was an outgrowth of a Kansas City, MO church.

Info on Mike Bickle, formerly pastor of the neo-charismatic Metro Christian Fellowship, which was formerly Kansas City Fellowship: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Bickle

Info on IHOP:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_House_of_Prayer

There's lots and lots on Mike Bickle and his former church on the internet. One thing you might search for is "Kansas City Prophets," a group of men who were thought to be prophets who were associated with Kansas City Fellowship.

[/quote]

Thanks. I've read those. I was more interested in people's opinions.


#11

[quote="gurneyhalleck1, post:5, topic:214044"]
Why am I suddenly hungry for chocolate chip pancakes after these IHOP references? :D

[/quote]

The first time I heard of the group was through the sister of a friend of mine. She lives in Wichita and mentioned that she was driving up to Kansas City to go to IHOP. I couldn't figure out why they had to go so far just for pancakes. IHOP's are pretty ubiquitous. There had to be one in Wichita.

The pancake place is now taking the ministry to court over the name. Actually they are being quite decent about it. All they want is for them to change their name and pay court costs. They're not asking for any damages.


#12

[quote="LongJourney, post:7, topic:214044"]
Because it is placed in such a position of importance. If it were just there, it would not be a problem. However, it was one of the first things I saw.

[/quote]

I just went to www.ihop.org and found no such statement about the deuterocanonicals.


#13

I am not surprised, given the number of hits on this thread and the previous one. :smiley:


#14

[quote="garysibio, post:10, topic:214044"]
Thanks. I've read those. I was more interested in people's opinions.

[/quote]

Evangelical Protestant and neo-charismatic in theology. Not likely to be friendly to Roman Catholics, except as a prelude to an attempt to convince them to leave the Catholic Church and become real Christians. That being said, their zeal for Christ and their love for prayer and worship is admirable.


#15

[quote="Alan55, post:14, topic:214044"]
That being said, their zeal for Christ and their love for prayer and worship is admirable.

[/quote]

And their service oriented ministries.


#16

Blind post!

[quote="garysibio, post:1, topic:214044"]
I've been listening to some podcasts from the people involved in this group and wondered what others thought of them. By that I mean comments about them in particular, not so much generic stuff that would apply to any non-Catholic group.

[/quote]

I was amused to see this thread, because I actually live right near where their HQ are. I first heard about them when I was moving up from Savannah for seminary. People were telling me, "Hey, ever heard of IHOP?" Of course, my first response was usually, "Oh yeah, I love their egg and bacon burgers." I then had to be corrected, as it was IHOP as in International House of Prayer (I understand the IHOP restaurant is suing them for this similitude right now, or they were).

From what I've seen on their webcams as well as talking to people who are members or had experience with them, they're a very Charismatic group, similar to what one might find in the film Jesus Camp. Some of the teachings I've heard by their pastors there have sent me for a whirl, and so I've for the most part made it a point to avoid them. Who knows, I might wander in there out of curiosity and then run out screaming like I did the Rock (mega)Church in Virginia Beach.


#17

It seems that you could call the Catholic church a "cult" for the same reasons IHOP is being referenced as a cult on posts at this site, two of which have been closed and cannot be commented on.

Leaders other than Christ that people are to obey, a separate book of prayer, indoctrination during Catechism, separate rules for layperson and clergy, control of finances, .....

Feel free to disagree with the religious tenants or have issues with how things are run IHOP or other religious institutions but please be careful when exorting to extreme labels.

Personally, I came from a strong Irish Catholic background and frankly find the knowledge that I have a DIRECT relationship with God to be an awesome thing. The recognition of the what the Holy Ghost is about and what he does for me personally has been amazing. I wish all on this post well, but remind you to take care of the plank in your eye before talking about the specks in others.

I highly recommend that ANYONE give the teaching at IHOP a try. Feel free to contradict and add your ideas to the discussion, I am confident they will be welcomed.


#18

I actually sat in on a few of IHOP's sessions. My friend spent 4 months with them and i flew to KC to drive her back. IHOP has ways for kids to earn money during their stay. The orgainization has apartments, houses, kitchens to feed everyone. Its sort of a communal society. New People come and some that have stayed awhile leave. Well it was an experience i wont soon forget. They had music and praise 24 hrs a day. The kids there at night especially were like in a trance. many would walk back and forth for hours or some would lean against a wall and go up and down constantly. Some would lay prostate. The music at times was hypnotic. Many would pass out from the experience. It was definitely nothing i had experience before. In one of the talks , they made you close your eyes and pray. when i opened my eyes two women were standing in front of me and my friend. We never met them before and never saw them again. They had a blank stare to them. they said they were sent to tell my friend all would be well with her struggles. It was a weird feeling. All i remember was that i felt like there was something there going on but i didnt think it was something good. All i know is i wanted to get out of KC as fast as i could.

The Theology was all over the place. Many things didnt mesh with typical christian beliefs as far as i remember. I have felt the presence of the holy spirit before. Its what solidified my faith. It was a feeling of love and joy that i cant explain. What i felt at IHOP was bewilderment and hesitation. Later it changed to fear. I felt like there might have been spirits there but not neccessarily good ones.


#19

My husband and I were involved in a Charismatic Church that was heavily tied in with IHOP. Most of our pastors teachings were teachings that Mike Bickle had done.

All I can say is that the Lord drew us out of that and when He did we sat out of church for 1 1/2 years before being brought home to the Catholic Church. We literally had to deprogram.
The main theme of teaching that comes from IHOP is the Bridal Paradigm. It is a false teaching if ever there was one. It seeks to have men sing prophetically about their "lover" and "the kisses of your mouth", being intimate with Jesus. At first we thought it meant intimacy in prayer but since then we have seen other teachings that are just not good. They tend to have sexual overtones.

I am going to post two links for you to look at and you can judge for yourselves.

khop.ca/khop/The_Bridal_Paradigm.html

herescope.blogspot.com/2008/05/mike-bickles-gigolo-jesus.html

I hope my husband comes on and posts more about this as I don't have much time right now with leaving for work. He can give you clearer thoughts on this. But we caution anyone who asks to run, run, run away from the Charismatic movement, the New Apostolic Reformation movement or anything to do with Dominionism.


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