Interracial Relationships

#21

Yes, the Catholic church never is racist. I am lucky to have many races in my parish and we all are striving for the same things...the color of the skin makes no difference and I find some cultures to be much more reverent than my own. :blush:

Even as a child, I wondered how Jesus could be portrayed so often with blondish hair and blue eyes when he was Jewish and not in a part of the country that was Sweden. But that's not as important as the reasons behind some of that, some very innocent, some not.

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#22

[quote="debraran, post:21, topic:248419"]
Yes, the Catholic church never is racist. I am lucky to have many races in my parish and we all are striving for the same things...the color of the skin makes no difference and I find some cultures to be much more reverent than my own. :blush:

Even as a child, I wondered how Jesus could be portrayed so often with blondish hair and blue eyes when he was Jewish and not in a part of the country that was Sweden. But that's not as important as the reasons behind some of that, some very innocent, some not.

[/quote]

I love to look up after I finish my prayers after Communion, and see the beautiful members of the Body of Christ, all colors, skin tones, ethnic backgrounds, etc. that make up our Church! My long-time Parish is VERY Catholic and that is one of the things I love the most about it. Every person from every walk of life is welcome and does not stand out in any way.

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#23

Our priest made a comment a few weeks ago how lucky we are to have a school and parish so integrated. Our city has “Polish” church’s, “Italian” and many years ago, you couldn’t pass through the doors without feeling unwelcome if you didn’t belong to that group, but our parish was always mixed with many cultures and I love that.
Having masses in different languages is nice but you should never make people feel unwelcome.

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#24

[quote="Jettspeed, post:1, topic:248419"]
I am currently involved in an interracial relationship. I am a white male she a black female. We have been dating for a year but my parents are unaccepting. They even refuse to even meet her. This has been very tough on me. Any advice?

[/quote]

Parents pull this kind of stunt for all kinds of reasons. This time it is about race; next time it could be because the woman was previously married, and the next time who knows what.

It might help to understand that our stages of growth do not end when we finish adolescence. Parents must go through the stage of accepting that their children are autonomous adults. Try to be compassionate, and realize that this stage of growth is harder for some of us than others. Every time you allow them to abuse your honor of them in order to treat you like a child will only make the acceptance of your adulthood harder for them to achieve.

They are engaging in emotional manipulation in order to advance the idea that they have some say in who you marry, that they have a say in your life choices. They don't. You can't change their wrong-headed thinking. You must stiffen your spine and refuse to accept their manipulative tactics. IOW: If you want your parents to treat you as a grown man, you have to act like one. Let them know the ways in which they may communicate their disapproval of your choices, and the ways in which they may not. Let them know that your choices are yours, and no one else's. Be self-controlled, but know what is yours to defend and defend it.

First, try a gentle tack. Explain that you know it is not easy that you have not grown to make all the decisions that they would, but tell them that their strategy is not going to change your mind. Their son is a man now. They have to face that and accept it, and then decide whether they will treat you with the respect a man deserves, because as a man, that is what you require. Ask them to drop this kind of treatment out of respect for you and your arrival in adulthood, if nothing else.

If they don't accept that their tactic is not working and will not work, then tell them that this is not just some date you picked up, but your girlfriend of many years. Even if you had just met her last week, they have no right to choose your friends or who you will marry, let alone to reject a friend of yours without even meeting her. Stay polite, but be ready to be as firm as you have to.

Let them know that if they refuse to meet her and to unfailingly treat her in the same polite manner with which you were required to treat every one of their social circle when you were growing up, then they are going to severely limit the amount of time they spend with you, because you refuse to be emotionally blackmailed. You will not stick around to be treated like a child. After all, if they don't treat your friends as they taught you to treat theirs, then that is what it is: either that or hypocrisy, take your pick. Also let them know that if you marry, you will not force your wife or children to have a relationship with someone who chose to hate her without even meeting her. You expect them to treat your friends and eventually your family with respect, and that is not negotiable.

This isn't about your girlfriend's race. It must be extremely painful for you that your parents would make you choose between being their son and being a man, but that is the situation. Get yourself support to get through this difficult time, but I think you know what you have to choose. It may take them some time to realize you are an adult, but it all starts with you deciding to act like one. There's no time like the present. Just Do It.

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#25

This isn’t about race per se, but I remember Fr. Pacwa’s story of how his dad said he’d disown him if he went into the priesthood, again at his first mass, but he told him he didn’t care, you can only try to control your children to some degree. My husband knew of a doctor that said the same to his son about his black girlfriend.he didn’t care either, when does the control end?

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#26

Yes, we are after all the univeral church.

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#27

Yes, I knew so many mixed couples, so many now, I couldn't count, working in a multi-culturall city, but even seeing them in the "burbs" where I lived before. I do think in at least my future grandchildren's lives, it wont be mentioned as much, if at all.It was only a bother in racist areas where you would expect it when I was younger and now I don't see that in the same degree. My children never had any issues, especially in college where there were also many mixed kids. They said no one even mentions it really.
I haven't known any to break up, bumping into many in my fifties now, but unfortunately my sisters marriages have. My mom realized that God sometimes gives us opportunities to learn and grow, even if we intitally don't like it. She is glad she is a better person now.

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#28

I think I can sum it up. I'll bluntly say it. If your against interracial relationships, you have race issues that can lead to bigotry and racism.

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#29

[quote="Jettspeed, post:1, topic:248419"]
I am currently involved in an interracial relationship. I am a white male she a black female. We have been dating for a year but my parents are unaccepting. They even refuse to even meet her. This has been very tough on me. Any advice?

[/quote]

I don't have much in the way of advice as to what your parents are thinking and doing. You can try to influence them but you have limited power. You can't MAKE them accept your girlfriend. And if they won't meet her then it will be hard for her to make a positive impression on them.

So this leaves you with the fact that is is tough for you.

Maybe your parents will change some day. Maybe they won't. For the sake of your girlfriend let's assume they will never change. What are you going to do about it? Are you willing and able to live without your parents in your life? Because you may have to do so.

If you end up marrying this woman it becomes your God given duty to shelter your wife and children from the harm your parents' racism would cause them.

Prayer's for you that your parents will come around.

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#30

I'm a black female, and I've had my share of interracial relationships. My parents are from the south, and although they weren't overt about it, I could tell that at first they weren't too happy when I started bringing white and hispanic guys home. They finally saw that I was truly discerning for marriage and no matter the color of the person I dated, they noticed when I was happy and when I wasn't. My happiness became more important to them than the color of the guys' skin. Over time, it became a non-issue for them. (My brother recently married a white woman and my parents had no problem with that. People can and do change!)

One of the white men I dated led me to the Catholic Church, and even though we're no longer together, I have to say that there was a reason for him to have been in my life. I'll be forever thankful for our relationship, even though things didn't work out between us (at two different points in our lives).

There is absolutely nothing wrong with interracial relationships; I can't stand the term "race-mixing." It just sounds so ignorant. We're all people and biologically capable of producing fertile offspring; people of all races are of the same species. Date who you want; you can respect your parents, but you don't have to obey them when they're obviously wrong. My prayers are with you.

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#31

[quote="pamnbam, post:30, topic:248419"]
I'm a black female, and I've had my share of interracial relationships. My parents are from the south, and although they weren't overt about it, I could tell that at first they weren't too happy when I started bringing white and hispanic guys home. They finally saw that I was truly discerning for marriage and no matter the color of the person I dated, they noticed when I was happy and when I wasn't. My happiness became more important to them than the color of the guys' skin. Over time, it became a non-issue for them. (My brother recently married a white woman and my parents had no problem with that. People can and do change!)

One of the white men I dated led me to the Catholic Church, and even though we're no longer together, I have to say that there was a reason for him to have been in my life. I'll be forever thankful for our relationship, even though things didn't work out between us (at two different points in our lives).

There is absolutely nothing wrong with interracial relationships; I can't stand the term "race-mixing." It just sounds so ignorant. We're all people and biologically capable of producing fertile offspring; people of all races are of the same species. Date who you want; you can respect your parents, but you don't have to obey them when they're obviously wrong. My prayers are with you.

[/quote]

Thank you for your perspective. I pray that one day, we will all get past this "racial" stuff and truly just see one another as brothers and sisters in Christ. I love this song that says we are all "colored people."

DC Talk Colored People

This is not the music video but it shows the lyrics, which I love a lot. "We're colored people and they call us the human race."

:thumbsup:

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#32

The issues regarding dating other races is really about cultural clashes rather than the actual skin color. The skin color is just a stereotype, and sadly it's often a true one, for identifying folks. There is nothing wrong if two people are okay with it, and they're both food folks. Of course, the number of good folks of any race(at least in the West) is declining but that's another thread...

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#33

The OP’s parents aren’t choosing this woman. They don’t need to “ID” her! Their son already chose her. If they were to agree to go to a restaurant and talk to her, that would be a far better way to see how she treats their son, and whether or not there’s going to be a clash.

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#34

[quote="EasterJoy, post:33, topic:248419"]
The OP's parents aren't choosing this woman. They don't need to "ID" her! Their son already chose her. If they were to agree to go to a restaurant and talk to her, that would be a far better way to see how she treats their son, and whether or not there's going to be a clash.

[/quote]

A far better way? Yes. But they do need to ID her. That's the duty of a good parent, sibling or friend. Honest evaluations and advice for future spouses comes with the territory.

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#35

I’m not at all opposed to interracial relationships and do everything I can to teach my kids to value the inner person and not what’s on the outside. This isn’t always easy, though.

My in-laws have always been extremely prejudiced, to the point that we’ve left their house on more than one occasion due to one of them going off on a racially-based tangent. Our daughters haven’t been exposed to this much, but our son was, and I’ve had to fight that influence in him a few times over the years.

I have a niece who is the product of a interracial relationship, although you wouldn’t necessarily know that just by looking at her (most people thinks she just tans well). She’s a wonderful little girl and gets along great with my kids. I have an aunt, however, who finds fault with everything she does. No matter how well she’s acting or getting along with my girls, I’ll hear about how rotten and mean she is. I can’t say for sure that the race thing is the issue, but for the life of me I can’t figure out what else it could be.

I have a cousin who has been looking into adoption. She told me recently that she’s reluctant to do a domestic adoption because of some high-profile cases where one of the biological parents sued to get visitation or to get the child outright, but she refuses to do an international adoption because one of her brothers told her that he would never accept a non-white baby into the family. This truly shocked me and has given me misgivings about taking my kids around that side of the family.

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#36

I know the the Golden Rule and "Love one another as I have loved you" is a hard one, but to turn on children, another point Jesus spoke about, is not Christian or just being a good person. How they think that amount of hate, (I'm not going to accept a "brown or asian or hispanic" grandchild, adopted or not), is so against what heaven and Jesus is about, to be filled with such hate, that you would taunt or hurt a person or child over skin color is so wrong.
I learned so much knowing different people, my children saw " sukkahs" when our orthodox Jewish neighbors built them and learned about the holiday and much more that helped their faith. They saw reverence in those same neighbors walking to temple, rain or shine, heat or cold, every Saturday and holy day without complaint and many times joy. They never would have dreamed of making fun of them, they were "normal" to them, a reason my neighborhood was a joy. We had a mixed couple next door, an Indian woman and a white man who had 2 beautful children, Italian Catholics, Black Catholics, Baptists, we all lived well together. A block party when the kids were young brought food from differnet cultures and many that really were the same.
I think it's great to get out of a "bubble" and learn that stereotypes can have some truth but many times they aren't. My daughter's and son have defended stupid things they have heard from others and were able to say, "No I know many "fill in the blank" and that's not true with most. One of them said they had a group of about 200 International and minority students at her college and some talked to a group about their transitions and had stories of stereotypes people had about them, things they said, and although some things were very funny, I had tears in my eyes from laughing, it wasn't that funny...some of it was sad. One young man from Africa was asked if wearing shoes all the time was a pain now and yes, the young woman was serious.
The more blended we become, the more that will ebb.

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#37

I am not in an “interracial” relationship, but I am going to share my thoughts on the subject.

I was raised in an atmosphere that nudged me in the direction of opposition to “interracial” relationships. Neither of my parents was blatantly racist, although both were raised in milieus that could have made them so (my mother in Alabama, my father in lily-white North Dakota).

My first real exposure to “interracial” relationships/marriages was in my overseas tours with the Air Force, and what I found was that the children of those relationships were almost universally better looking than either of their parents (not meaning that their parents were necessarily ugly), and, perhaps, sharper mentally as well. At one point I was in an advanced sociology class, and I asked the professor about that. He said that it was a manifestation of a phenomenon known as “hybrid vigor,” meaning that when the parents are from radically different gene pools, the offspring tend to be more vigorous.

I believe, and have believed for a long time, that God’s will is manifested in the nature that God created. I lost any opposition to “interracial” marriages that might have remained when I realized that the nature that God created rewards “interracial” marriages with more vigorous children. I read in the Old Testament God’s warnings against Israelites’ marrying outside the community, but I also saw that the “community” he had in mind was the faith community, and that when foreigners (Rahab and Ruth, for two) entered the Israelite faith community, there was no objection to their marrying Israelites. And we all know how their descendants turned out.

You may have noticed that have enclosed “interracial” in quotation marks. That is because I now believe that it is impossible for human beings to be in an “interracial” relationship. “Interracial” refers to humans and Klingons. Humans are all part of the same race.

(As a side note, I now live near a city that used to be known as a “sundown town” (you can wiki that phrase at your convenience). Now, however, I see many children who are obviously the products of “interracial” relationships, and I think they are beautiful.)

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#38

[quote="TheRealJuliane, post:31, topic:248419"]
Thank you for your perspective. I pray that one day, we will all get past this "racial" stuff and truly just see one another as brothers and sisters in Christ. I love this song that says we are all "colored people."
"We're colored people and they call us the human race."

[/quote]

:thumbsup:
IF we are Christian, then we know we are all cousins. Relative darkness of skin, eye, hair color does not matter. Northern Ireland or South of France, Eastern India or West Texas, North Africa or South America. We're all God's people. The sooner the world learns that, the better we all will be.

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#39

They can give feedback, and I hope most of us will have the sense to put some stock in the judgment of people whose judgement we’ve come to value. I would argue that these parents have shot themselves in the foot on that count, though.

The ultimate thumbs up or thumbs down is not theirs to give or withhold. Furthermore, by their obvious prejudice (literally: an adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts) the OP’s parents have let him know that they have let go of rational judgment. They cannot be trusted to give unbiased feedback.

If the OP’s parents were to meet this woman and find that she was objectively an awful choice, they’d have lost all stature with him to say so, because by now they have spent so much time unfairly rejecting her. If they wanted their two cents to count for anything, they blew that. They’d better hope he can do a good job of discernment all by himself.

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#40

[quote="newbetx, post:38, topic:248419"]
:thumbsup:
IF we are Christian, then we know we are all cousins. Relative darkness of skin, eye, hair color does not matter. Northern Ireland or South of France, Eastern India or West Texas, North Africa or South America. We're all God's people. The sooner the world learns that, the better we all will be.

[/quote]

When I was taking a course in the ethnic groups of the USSR for my MA, I learned that the most distant two humans on earth are no farther than 25th cousin.

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