Ironic: Villains in ‘Red Dawn’ Remake Changed So Beijing Won’t Be Offended

I saw that Hollywood was remaking the movie Red Dawn. Remember seeing that years ago. Originally China was to invade the US. But out of concern of offending the Chinese, the villain is to be the N Koreans. From an economic stand point, makes sense. Name wise though, Red Dawn sounds like the Chinese.

"Ironic: Villains in ‘Red Dawn’ Remake Changed So Beijing Won’t Be Offended"
dougpowers.com/2011/03/21/red-dawn-villains/

from the article:

Instead of spending a million dollars digitally altering the villain, they should have just kept China as the invader, made the movie revolve around debt, and changed the title to “Repo Man II.”
Last summer they were filming portions of the movie here in Michigan, and I think this propaganda poster would make a great addition to the “Let’s Move” anti-obesity campaign:

yeah cuz the north koreans could launch an invasion of north America:rolleyes: china could conceivably do so but it would take some decades for them to get the naval power, but north Korea is about as likely to invade north America as Pakistan invading Australia, it just won't happen.

Why not just keep it the USSR?

I know it does not exist anymore but if it's a remake I don't see the need to update it. If they feel it's necassary then China would be the only way to go with, IMO. Iran is probably more appropriate but wouldn't fit the name.

Oh please keep it the USSR, my wife is Russian and I showed her Red Dawn once. She has never laughed so hard in her life. It's a quite ludicrous movie which is a dated propaganda piece made at the height of cold war tensions.

The remake is probably attempting to tie into the game Homefront which features a similar plotline and is written by the same writer who co-wrote Red Dawn. I advise you to watch the trailer for this as it's rather stupid. It shows N.Korea conquering the South and then going on to trash much of the local area including getting Japan to surrender to it before invading the US. All by the way within a time frame of around a dozen years or so. Now yes in the real world some nations have rearmed alarmingly quickly but this whole plot strains credibility.

Even more hilariously the game Homefront which is now serving as a kind of unofficial tie in due to having had all Chinese invading references removed from it has run into akwardness in Japan. Where they had to remove all references about Korea from it and replace it with vague, 'some other country' type references.

Red Dawn is an odd little movie that is fairly bizarre and I think I'd leave it to be forgotten as it's a fairly silly movie all told.

Did you watch American movies in the 80’s? Half of them were jingoistic, and 9/10 were silly. :rolleyes:

But we love them, it’s part of being silly Americans. :thumbsup:

[quote="Havard, post:6, topic:233329"]
Did you watch American movies in the 80's? Half of them were jingoistic, and 9/10 were silly. :rolleyes:

But we love them, it's part of being silly Americans. :thumbsup:

[/quote]

Oh yes I lived through the 80's I was in my mid teens about half way through. I remember the Rambo movies and numerous other very silly ones. Let's just say in the UK and Ireland we watched them but in an ironic manner. The kind of flag waving patriotism in much American media has it's counterparts of course in the UK or Ireland but even then it's usually underlined by a sense of sarcasm or irony.

I'd loved to have shown Red Dawn to my wife's late grandfather who was a Col. in the Red Army. I imagine he would have found it hysterical. Although he would have probably spent a lot of the movie taking the mickey out of military inaccuracies. I know my father who is also ex military almost fell of his chair laughing at points.

I still can’t believe the ridiculous, politically incorrect stuff that some of those movies got away with… remember Long Duk Dong in Sixteen Candles? Or pretty much the entirety of Big Trouble in Little China?

[quote="Havard, post:8, topic:233329"]
I still can't believe the ridiculous, politically incorrect stuff that some of those movies got away with... remember Long Duk Dong in Sixteen Candles? Or pretty much the entirety of Big Trouble in Little China?

[/quote]

I think Big Trouble in Little China is so tongue in cheek at points that no-one can take it seriously. It would be like contending that Leprechaun you guys use to promote Lucky Charms breakfast cereals was a serious bit of anti-Irish bigotry.

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:9, topic:233329"]
I think Big Trouble in Little China is so tongue in cheek at points that no-one can take it seriously. It would be like contending that Leprechaun you guys use to promote Lucky Charms breakfast cereals was a serious bit of anti-Irish bigotry.

[/quote]

Fair enough. Though I am now reminded of Peter Sellers' role as Inspector Wang in Murder By Death... nearly everything about his role was some racist parody. :rolleyes:

Peter Sellers: "It's late and my eyes are getting tired."
Peter Falk's character: "I thought they always looked like that."

[quote="Havard, post:10, topic:233329"]
Fair enough. Though I am now reminded of Peter Sellers' role as Inspector Wang in Murder By Death... nearly everything about his role was some racist parody. :rolleyes:

Peter Sellers: "It's late and my eyes are getting tired."
Peter Falk's character: "I thought they always looked like that."

[/quote]

I remember that although I've never been a huge Peter Seller's fan for some reason. I think my favourite bit (of totally unintentional racism in this case) was American comic books where occasionally the publishers and writes would try and break way from the whitebread image of superheroes and introduce ethnic heroes or villians. Occasionally something interesting would come of that, but more ofthen than not it was a case of 'worthy intentions and dire execution'.

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:11, topic:233329"]
I remember that although I've never been a huge Peter Seller's fan for some reason. I think my favourite bit (of totally unintentional racism in this case) was American comic books where occasionally the publishers and writes would try and break way from the whitebread image of superheroes and introduce ethnic heroes or villians. Occasionally something interesting would come of that, but more ofthen than not it was a case of 'worthy intentions and dire execution'.

[/quote]

How old are the comics you're thinking of? I ask because reading Marvel comics in the 1970's and early 1980's I felt that the editors went out of their way to editorialize about racism being wrong (which is fine by me but perhaps not as bold a move as it would have been a decade or two earlier).

[quote="tomarin, post:12, topic:233329"]
How old are the comics you're thinking of? I ask because reading Marvel comics in the 1970's and early 1980's I felt that the editors went out of their way to editorialize about racism being wrong (which is laudatory of course although perhaps a wee bit unnecessary and/or obvious by that point).

[/quote]

Oh the writers definitely did go out of their way to point out how flawed racialist beliefs are. People like Christ Claremont or Len Wein and others were very much against. I did say it was unintentional racism as sometimes their very earnestness led them to create characters who were a wee bit stereotypical or presented odd versions of their purported nationality that people who really came from these countries found odd. But there was definitely no wish to be intentionally racist there and some of these writers improved at portraying people from other cultures as they went on. Claremont did for example although he sometimes still made some mistakes but you could tell he for example genuinely respected people's humanity regardless of nationality and his portrayal of religion in standard superhero comic books is still pretty much unmatched. Particularly his portrayal of Catholicism. I can only think of a couple of other comic book writers who match him in that regard even now.

One of the best moments in a Marvel comic ever is when Jonah Jameson responds to a guy who is racist in a late 60's Spider-Man issue. The guy asks Jameson why his attitude is wrong and Jameson responds, 'If you don't know why I could never tell you'. Other top moments are a Defenders issue when Steve Gerber reveals the racist group our erstwhile heroes have been battling is actually led by a black guy. Cue a scene by said leader about how he detests his own people and one of the black heroes physically restraining himself from giving into the temptation of beating him severely.

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:13, topic:233329"]
Oh the writers definitely did go out of their way to point out how flawed racialist beliefs are.

[/quote]

I also recall Marvel investing some energy in creating and showcasing black superheroes in the 1970's, such as Black Panther and Luke Cage. I don't know if D.C. had analogous efforts but if so I don't recall them.

Re Chris Claremont, are you thinking of Banshee? His "new" X-men were an international bunch and I can see how some of his efforts at making them distinctive might have seemed clumsy. But honestly it's been a while. (I do remember being annoyed by his need to have Colossus refer to everyone as "tovaricsh" and to have Nightcrawler end every sentence with "nicht wahr?).

[quote="tomarin, post:14, topic:233329"]
I also recall Marvel investing some energy in creating and showcasing black superheroes in the 1970's, such as Black Panther and Luke Cage. I don't know if D.C. had analogous efforts but if so I don't recall them.

Re Chris Claremont, are you thinking of Banshee? His "new" X-men were an international bunch and I can see how some of his efforts at making them distinctive might have seemed clumsy. But honestly it's been a while. (I do remember being annoyed by his overuse of Collosus calling everyone one "tovaricsh" and Nightcrawler's "nicht wahr's at the end of every sentence.)

[/quote]

Four words about DC in this period:- Tony Isabella Black Lightning. Black Panther is a 1960's creation by the way, who first appeared in the Fantastic Four. Jack Kirby and Stan Lee disliked racist attitudes, especially Jack who loathed them.

Colossus and Banshee were exactly who I was thinking of Banshee. Colossus he managed to elevate above a stereotype in the end but I think Banshee was a character few have ever managed to write well. It doesn't help that Roy Thomas and Stan Lee who created him were unaware his name refers to a particular mythological figure of the female gender and not the male. Also the awful green and yellow costume design was terrible. Nightcrawler stopped been a total stereotype as his religious faith came to the fore I felt, especially when you had him and Wolverine sparring about that verbally. Always humorous to see Logan (the suppossed atheist) telling his best friend how he didn't believe in God etc. and then go out wiilling to die in defence of innocents or to protect others. A paradox Kurt called on him more than a few times I recall. But this was back in the day when Kurt could use argue that using claws to chop up people was just possibly not the best solution every time. Something you sadly won't see Marvel do with a character who has become a big cash cow now.

Comics have a long history of casual racism. Some of it although teeth grinding is forgiveable, some of it less so. The Marvel comics of the period you and I thinking fo were mainly just clunky and at worst sometimes terribly ignorant of other cultures.

But back to Red Dawn, I know the game has airbrushed out the Chinese but I wonder what genius decided to use them in the first place and thus create the whole issue. I think using them as opponents could be seen to cause problems in this kind of commercial movie a long way off.

That’s the vibe I got.

Colossus and Banshee were exactly who I was thinking of Banshee.

I kind of liked Banshee. He was never more than a supporting character however and his tenure as an X-Man was very brief, as I recall. He was involved with a cute scientist named Moira Mactaggert, as I also recall.

Comics have a long history of casual racism.

It would be interesting to see a book-length treatment of that.

But back to Red Dawn, I know the game has airbrushed out the Chinese but I wonder what genius decided to use them in the first place and thus create the whole issue. I think using them as opponents could be seen to cause problems in this kind of commercial movie a long way off.

I’m agnostic on Red Dawn. I thought the original was a kind of preposterous right-wing fantasy when it first came out. I do think China is an “evil empire” of sorts but I doubt they will attack the United States. After all they would be attacking their number one consumer market.

Exactly I am by no means a fan of China's social set up but given the ammount of Hollywood material that hits their screens and filters into them and (as you say) the business relationships between the two the move to make China the villians in a big budget move was commercial suicide.

There are a couple of books that deal with racism in comic books but none that deal with it as their only topic. By the way Banshee's missus has been killed of but knowing the revolving door of death in superhero comics she will probably be back alive sooner or later as Banshee has recently been ressurected as was Colossus and both were dead for some time. I think the only deaths you can now count on as constant in DC or Marvel are Uncle Ben and Bruce Wayne's parents and even then I'm not sure about that.

Kirby is the wellspring from which much of today's comic book artists are still drawing as he was an immense talent that I think only a handful of individuals in comics history have matched.

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:17, topic:233329"]
There are a couple of books that deal with racism in comic books but none that deal with it as their only topic.

[/quote]

If I were more ambitious perhaps I would write that book. It would be more interesting than what I'm doing now (at work, I mean).

By the way Banshee's missus has been killed of but knowing the revolving door of death in superhero comics she will probably be back alive sooner or later as Banshee has recently been ressurected as was Colossus and both were dead for some time. I think the only deaths you can now count on as constant in DC or Marvel are Uncle Ben and Bruce Wayne's parents and even then I'm not sure about that.

What used to be called Bucky's law, right? (Except it no longer applies to Bucky.)

Kirby is the wellspring from which much of today's comic book artists are still drawing as he was an immense talent that I think only a handful of individuals in comics history have matched.

I always found his artwork surreally wonderful. He had a unique, immediately recognizable style. Yesterday I bought my first comic in decades -- a paperback from 1979 of Jack Kirby redrawing Captain America's origin story and a few other early adventures. I couldn't pass it up because Kirby was the illustrator (and he was Cap's original illustrator in the 1940's, as you probably know). Stan Lee writes.

One annoying criticism I have heard levelled at Kirby is that he does not draw realistically. Given the subject material it's a fairly ludicrous claim and although his anatomical renditions are not always the most perfect I never saw him draw women with unfeasibly large basketball size breasts as was common in the late 80's and through the 90's and even now. Oh yes Bucky is back alive and having a relationship with the Black Widow. Natasha and Tony Stark are the two great contenders for most promiscous in the Marvel Universe I sometimes think!

Red Dawn is something I think could have languished forever without a remake but Hollywood is a nostalgia machine as much as anything else and they know even though people thought the original was silly they will go to see a remake. No matter how ludicrous the plot.

[quote="JharekCarnelian, post:15, topic:233329"]
Black Panther is a 1960's creation by the way, who first appeared in the Fantastic Four.

[/quote]

1968, according to Wikipedia.

As for criticisms of Jack Kirby, I guess the faces all look a bit alike, but he makes up for it with his alien spacecraft emerging out of swirls and fans of cosmic fireworks. All superhero comic book art is stylized to some degree, especially with regard to the human form. (Kirby's buildings look pretty much like buildings, square and so forth.)

One stylized artist (or maybe it's non-stylized, since his is a minimalist style) from that era who I never cared for is Steve Ditka.

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