Is an IUD ever ok for a catholic woman to have?

Stillsosola,

I’m sorry your husband isn’t standing up for you. Your family is in my prayers.

Mexico is full of good, wonderful people. Keep going to Mass and follow what your priest advises, not people on a forum. This may very well be the cross God has given you and your priest knows this better than the rest of us. If he tells you to receive Communion then please do. It may give you the strength to continue on this journey.

You don’t?

She gave birth in the US in January. In september she posted that she would never have an IUD. Then now she says that she got one at her 6 WEEK appointment which would have been in February at the latest. Even if the IUD had to be scheduled, after SEPTEMBER is not making sense. Not only that but if she is to be deported then that means she has citizenship elsewhere, probably the US. SHe says her husband cannot legally get into the US.

Best case scenario is that she is leaving out some interesting details about citizenships, and medical care.

She says the government threatened deportation but in September it was just social workers who pushed the IUD and there was no threat to her “friends”

I just think before we go around saying it is ok for someone to have an IUD because of force, we need to think through it a little more. She has posted that she is physically abused by her in laws, and obviously mentally abused by her husband with the IUD. IF she is an american citizen she needs legal counseling and help.
She should speak to a priest, which she says she has. But as for people here filling in the blanks with some kind of excuse of culpability, I don’t buy it. If she is being forced, there are recourses. She came to the US to have her baby, perhaps she needs to come back. But she should be warned, people here “force” ABC on patience all the time.

There is one thing I have noticed on these forums. People post the most convoluted scenarios to try to get confirmation that ABC is ok. Medical, financial, spousal, etc. This is the first political one I have seen. And I don’t think any of us are international diplomats.

With all of the hubbub about health care AND ABC, AND immigration reform battles on the horizon, AND the previous posts about abuse, I am suspect of this story.

Listen…she is NOT the only one with these kinds of issues here, but these pressures are NOT her fault.

I have a friend of mine who was almosted** ABORTED**! Yes, you heard right. He was almost aborted! His mother did NOT want an abortion, but somehow the doctor did something to try to force her to have an abortion, against her will, anyway. She said it was at a time when they were trying to force women here to not have children. So, stranger things have happened here, believe me when I tell you.

Now, the mother in question is VERY Catholic and did NOT want an abortion, but somehow or other, don’t understand quite how, I don’t know if he wanted to give her medication, but I guess she didn’t realize, till after the fact, what it was.

Anyway, the child, my friend, survived. Years afterwards, she told him what happened, and he was FURIOUS! However, she told him that she forgives the doctor for doing this to her and that he must, as well.

However, he wasn’t able to walk until he was 2 y.o., seemingly due to all this. However, now, he is fine in every way.

Now, I would like to tell you that we, here in some other countries, sometimes have our doctors even LIE to us, and try to force us to do all kinds of things, against our wills! So, please take this into consideration when you act in judgment of her.

I once had a doctor, here, tried to force me to have a thyroid operation. Initially, I wanted it, then changed my mind. He told me, “You’re getting this surgery!” I said, “No I’, NOT!” Do you know, he scheduled it, and I didn’t go, and they got mad at me! I went back and said, “I want to be reassigned to another doctor!” I said this after I was scolded for not showing up for a surgery, but I told him, repeatedly I would NOT go after all. I think a lot of people here succumb to the lies and pressure.

I am routinely told all kinds of things that I need to check out later. I can sometimes talk to 5 people here, get 5 different answers about almost anything!

She has come to this forum, and I thought that was good, since we can’t trust even our own doctors, etc., for any kind of reliable information here, Please don’t make her regret turning to us and trusting us!

Realize she is dealing with a VERY, VERY hard culture! She is at a TREMENDOUS disadvantage, because she’s a foreigner, dependent on the whims of the government policies, which may change overnight with no explanations given!

Please be compassionate, understanding, caring. Realize that not everywhere is like the US, that there is a ton of misinformation, and I, even though I have a college degree, have also believed all kinds of these lies, fallen into all kinds of traps.

In the US, these people would all be sued, but this is NOT the US. Please keep that in mind.

Yep. Oftentimes there can be pressure among doctors in other countries to do this. Sometimes they lie, especially if they think they can get away with it (say, a foreigner unfamiliar with the laws of the country she is staying in, or an uneducated person) so they can meet the “population targets”. Back in the Philippines, during the 1970s, before the Revolution, such was often common (and incidentally it’s theoretically in force today, though being challenged in the courts). Before anyone could get legally married, they would need to see a “family planning” counselor. Now legally, they were supposed to give advice both on ABC and on NFP. But because the government set quotas, they simply would intimidate young married couples into getting IUDs for the wife. Of course, this tended to not be the case if the counselor was a priest, for obvious reasons (not too uncommon in those days).

So I’m not surprised that Mexico has this sort of regulation. Heck, we’re talking about a country that still theoretically prohibits outdoor religious observances.

To the OP, I would honestly talk to your priest, or at least one you can trust. Follow his advice.

I almost couldn’t believe what I’m reading here. This woman is being forced to use an IUD against her will. Her husband is siding with the doctor. She should listen to her priests. There is no way that she could be giving full consent to this. She is poor and has 4 children to raise. She has tried (and failed) to have it removed, and she cannot remove it herself. And now she feels that she is being condemned by God, too.

While I certainly would not recommend an IUD, I have read something about them. There are apparently two kinds - copper and Mirena. The Mirena secretes a hormone and works much like the pill. The chances of an egg being fertilized and rejected are probably very slim because most of the time it will prevent the egg from being fertilized in the first place.

I think the copper IUD would be more problematic. There is supposedly something about the copper that prevents the sperm from meeting the egg, but I think the chances of an egg being fertilized and failing to attach is much higher when you have one of these.

So I guess the bottom line is that if she has the copper IUD and thinks she is ovulating, she could kick her husband out of the bedroom.

Some of the comments on this thread are not very helpful - I think they will just make this woman feel worse about her situation. The Church needs to understand that many women are between a rock and a hard place, and in many cultures, the man is the boss and there is not much a woman can do about it.

For many women, NFP is just not possible because their husbands refuse to put up with it. The attitude is, “You are my wife and I want it NOW!”

Hoosier Daddy, I understand what you are saying, but I don’t think you understand what Mexico is really like. It is easy for you to say to her to just come back to the US, but what about her family? Her husband cannot immigrate with her. If he says no, she can’t take the kids with her, then she will have to leave her kids as well. There is no way the Mexican govt. will let her take those kids out of Mexico without her husband’s permission. It is even very likely if she left him and took the kids even to another place in Mexico, her kids would be taken back to him and she would be deported after a long stay in a Mexican jail. It is not as simple as it is for us here in the US.

No, most Americans do not know what it is like down there. Drug wars are only a small part of tge problems there. And no, I’m not saying this out of hatred for Mexico. I love it down there and plan to move back as soon as my husband retires from the army. We spent years moving back and forth between the two countries. I know the problems, especially in the big cities, but my husband’s town is so remote those troubles don’t apply most of the time. But I saw them when we were in various cities.

If the dr wanted her to have birth control, especially since her husband agreed, it was going to happen with or without her consent or possibly her knowledge. That is how it is done. Does that make it NOT a sin? NO IT DOES NOT. Does that make it LESS of a sin? OF COURSE IT DOES! Her pastor has advised her of what to do. She is seeking advise from her bishop. She is doing what is within her control.

What we need to do is pray for tge people of Mexico as well as other countries that deal with these situations. There are many around the world, not just China. we especially need to pray for our own country because the United States is quickly becoming like these other places. We need to pray to prevent that from happening.

I’ve lived here in Mexico 10 years, and I don’t. She’s just giving her opinion, as an American, living in Mexico. She has a right to not only her opinion but her feelings.

We are used to hearing about discrimination of Americans against Mexicans. I can only assure you the door swings both ways.

Yes, you are right. It does swing both ways.

No, she said she would never get sterilized. An IUD is a semi-permant or long-acting contraceptive, but it is not the same as getting sterilized.

We don’t know that she’s a US citizen. We also don’t know if there are other reasons why her husband would not be permitted in the US. I don’t see this as cause for questioning her account of events.

In Februray she felt threatened with deportation if she did not accept an IUD. In September she posted that her cousins had previously been persuaded to get sterilized by government-employed social workers. Again, no discrepancy.

No one’s saying an IUD is okay. Contracepting is always gravely wrong. But IF a person were in the situation that OP decribes, where she’s threatened with deportation if she refuses, this would reduce her culpability, which seems to be consistent with what her priests are advising her. I may feel pressured to contracept here in the States (and I just assume I’ll experience some pressure if we’re ever blessed with four kids), but no one’s going to deny me food, health care, education, or the ability to live with my children - as not infrequently happens in other parts of the world - if I choose not to.

Absolutely endorse this, although I have no experience of Mexico. If a person’s only experience is the way things are done in the USA, they have absolutely no understanding of the situation in other countries of the world. And, until you have been a non-citizen of a country, you have no idea of the securities that are just part of your daily life which do not exist for non-citizens.

For a non-citizen just the threat of deportation is a huge and real fear. If I understand correctly, in this case, the mother would be deported, but her husband and children would stay in Mexico - what a horrible threat for a mother to face. A friend of mine faced something similar in a first world country in Europe - it took an immigration lawyer to help sort that one out and she is now a citizen; but it was a horrible and scary time for her.

I may be wrong, but, I think she did say that two priests have advised her, but she feels she can’t trust their advice and wishes to consult the bishop. I would suggest, OP, that you ask the bishop which priest you should regularly consult and take the advice the bishop and that priest give you, for your own peace of mind.

You all are looking past some things.

Yes. Mexico is corrupt and difficult.
Yes. There are some circumstances that are different here.

But the OP’s entire situation does not make sense. If everybody want’s to fill inthe blanks and use this situation as a platform for talking about how things need to change. Then fine. But to look past some obvious questions here and chalk it up to “those darn amigos” is not really helping anyone.

I find it so odd that we as Americans are trying to take the sliver out of our brother’s eye here. The US does this exact same thing. Doctors here push ABC, we threaten with deportation, we get 5 different opinions from 5 different doctors. We almost abort or scare people into aborting all the time. PP is famous for that. So before we go around saying you don’t know what it is like around these parts. Lets take a big look at ourselves.

The OP is american, at least on of her children is as well. Because the child was born here. The OP is saying she is physically abused, mentally abused, and forced into immoral acts.

If I just gave you those facts, the unanimous advice would be to get herself out of danger ASAP and take the kids using whatever means necessary to keep them from physical harm.

But for some reason everyone wan’t to talk about how the OP is not culpable in having ABC. Just keep the status quo to keep everyone happy. She already has spoken to a priest who told her to not worry about the IUD.

So, is that really the advice we want to give. Suck it up, do the immoral act without fear of the consequences of sin to keep the abusers at bay.

Or, if we are to believe the OP’s story in it’s entirety. Shouldn’t we be encouraging this person to get to safety?

But perhaps the veracity of the facts here are to be overlooked to bring attention to a political hot button issue.

I am reminded of Joe the Plumber. No one cared his story was false, no one cared he was trumpeted for the Obama jobs" program. His anecdote just served a political purpose.

We’ve got the machismo…just all kinds of stuff going on, simultaneously! VERY complex.

Again, I think what would help her most would be if we could all try to understand and be supportive, if nothing else-

That is rape. Plain and simple. And, as Catholics, we do not tell possible rape victims to just use Birth Control.

As for your IUD anylisis, we don’t excuse something because it has the chance of being less evil than something else. We do not say it is ok to shoot someone with a bow and arrow because it is “less” lethal than a .44 mag.
Basic Catholic theology states that there is no such thing as the lesser of two evils, nor are we permitted to do evil even if good is the result. Because nothing Holy can come from evil. Any type of evil.

Saints have been mayrtered for less than we excuse away for coercion.

A woman is being abused. If this is true, she should get out and get any sort of legal help she can. That should be our advice. We are not her legal counsel , nor do we speak in place of a confessor.

The nothing else would be to advise a woman in trouble to seek help.

What do you mean by being supportive? Telling her it is ok to have an IUD?
I feel I am being supportive by offering a dose of reality to either a story we don’t have all the facts about or a dangerously abusive situation.

This is the danger of the internet.

If she is coming here for help, we all have failed. If she is coming here for support, we all are trying our best from our own perspectives, if she is coming here for confirmation in sin, I cannot partake in the party.

And still many here are telling her that her confessor is wrong and she can disregard his advice for our own.

Like I said, you are under the assumption that somehow Mexico and the US are the same when it comes to this. No, it is very different. Culturally it is different. Legally it is different. The “abuse” is not viewed as abuse. It is a family matter and not seen the same way as here. ABC is PUSHED in the US, it isn’t FORCED in the US. I agree that it will be soon if we don’t do something about that, but as of today it isn’t FORCED. If it was, I would not have 8 kids and not even practice NFP. It is different as of today and I pray it stays that way. I fear Obamacare is the beginning of the end for us, so to speak.

We Americans have a bad habit of only seeing the world as it exists in the States. We do deport people, but not because they decide to reproduce! We do push birth control, but we don’t force or coerce. We do get misdiagnosed, but we have legal actions we can take. And when people try to leave bad situations there are plenty of people to help them out and the govt will help. Not every country provides for their people like we do. In Mexico, the children stay with the father unless he gives them to someone else, but usually that person wil not be the mom. It will be his family members instead. And the law will back him up on that. Would YOU be willing to give up your children?

The reason we honor the martyrs is because most if us would never do what they did. personally? I would die in a given moment for my faith, but there is no way I would walk away from my kids. I would continue suffering for them as long as I needed to, whatever it took for as long as it took. I’m sure most of us would do the same thing. It is romantic to envision a different way, but when reality sets in, how many really choose the holier path?

In fact, if you read the edited version of the OP that I’ve put above, anyone who says she is in mortal sin and should refrain from communion is contradicting the advice given her by her confessor and priests - these are Catholic clergy living and working in Mexico, with a far greater understanding of the situation there than most of the rest of us participating in this thread. And with a personal knowledge of both the OP and her situation that none of us has.

The help that can be sought in the USA is not the same as what is available in other countries, especially when the cultural norms are very different.

The IUD was forced on her by her husband and the doctor. She has been told by her confessor that this lessens her culpability and that she can therefore continue to receive communion. In addition, she is practising NFP so the IUD is not in fact doing anything other than keep her medical records in the way the government of the country in which she lives wants them. Now, in spite of all this, this lady still feels guilty and in emotional pain and feels she is not worthy to receive Our Lord Jesus Christ in communion. Must we now add to her feelings and contradict her confessor?

Yes, this is the danger of the Internet, we are thinking we can advise her something different from what her confessor has advised.

Well we did it! We finally found a question like the title of this thread that the answer is “yes” to. I have been told by a priest before that condoms were ok. Does that mean I can do it now? What if my wife threatens to divorce me and take the kids? Which is what happens to men in THIS country. They lose their children all the time!

But we finally found the situation that the answer is “yes” it is ok for a Cathoic woman to have an IUD. Oh and by the way, she should stay in a physically abusive houshold for the sake of the kids.

I have learned something new today.

There are exceptions to the no ABC rule of the Church.
Perhaps this teaching will change.

Nevermind that still no one has addressed the odd timeline of the posts and the admitted abuse.:shrug:

Hoosier Daddy, we’re perhaps not emphasizing what you would in our responses (her need to remove herself from an abusive situation) but where in this thread has ANYONE said that it’s okay for a woman to use an IUD? This is very different from saying that a person using an IUD may not be in mortal sin.

Exactly this.

Also, in the US, if a man loses custody of his kids, it is possible to have visitation rights and you know your children will be raised by their mom. What hope does she have to see her kids if she gets deported? It is much more complicated than you seem to want to understand.

Hoosier Daddy, I am 100% against birth control and praise Jesus so is my husband. I was super lucky to marry the man I did and I am sure your wife is lucky to have found someone like you. Not everyone is so blessed.

Birth control is a grave evil. Period. It does not matter if one is “lucky” enough to have a spouse that is as well. It isn’t about what a certain person believes. It is about objective Truth.

It reeks of the same mentality of “well I would never have an abortion but who am I to tell someone else who believes it is ok…:shrug:”

But for the record I will be the voice saying the OP should find saftey for her and her kids and that answer to the title question is NO. It is never ok.

I click on these threads all the time. They are everywhere around here. Can I use ABC IF… As if there is some situation that the Church has not thought of yet. As if there is some loophole. There is not. Period.

With medical reasons you can argue double effect. But not here.

No, OP it is not ok. And you need to get help.

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