Is anyone else experiencig this in regard to Pope Francis?


#1

Over the past couple weeks I have heard the following; (this isn't just about foot washing - please read the whole thing)

From a priest at Mass:
Pope Francis is teaching us we no longer have to be trapped by the laws of the Church that do not make sense. By washing women's feet he showed us that we can ignore them (many of us have been for years anyway), that we are smart people and can figure things out for ourselves.

From numerous people in support of gay marriage:
We have new hope in Pope Francis. He is removing the shroud of darkness from the Church and will bring us into the new century where we all have equal rights. His message of love and inclusion is a breath of fresh air for gay marriage.

From numerous people who want women priests:
Thank God for Pope Francis. We finally have a shot at equal rights for women.

Have any of you experienced this? What is going on?


#2

Don't worry, remember the Pope is your Pope, no matter what the enemies of Christ and his Church want to say about him, he is your Pope and not theirs. The enemies of the Church are going to be presenting him to you as their Pope, but once they realize he is actually a Catholic they will turn on him also. Go to EWTN and National Catholic Register for reliable presentations from faithful Catholics. God bless.


#3

[quote="Elzee, post:1, topic:321423"]
From a priest at Mass:
Pope Francis is teaching us we no longer have to be trapped by the laws of the Church that do not make sense. By washing women's feet he showed us that we can ignore them (many of us have been for years anyway), that we are smart people and can figure things out for ourselves.

[/quote]

I do not support it. :hmmm:

From numerous people in support of gay marriage:
We have new hope in Pope Francis. He is removing the shroud of darkness from the Church and will bring us into the new century where we all have equal rights. His message of love and inclusion is a breath of fresh air for gay marriage.

NO WAY I support that. :mad:

From numerous people who want women priests:
Thank God for Pope Francis. We finally have a shot at equal rights for women.

I strongly support it. :thumbsup:


#4

Hi Elzee

From a priest at Mass:
Pope Francis is teaching us we no longer have to be trapped by the laws of the Church that do not make sense. By washing women's feet he showed us that we can ignore them (many of us have been for years anyway), that we are smart people and can figure things out for ourselves.

Well as long as it is nothing dogmatic, some "laws" are pretty minor. Canon law is fluid and can change from to age. Just consider how seriously some pre-Vatican II Catholics took meatless Fridays and novenas.

Jesus never enacted any positive laws other than the commandment to love as he loved. Jesus was himself a law-breaker as far as contemporary Pharisaic obsession with a literal, rigid obedience to the Torah was concerned. So that would depend strongly on the context.

In the Orthodox Churches, canons are broken all the time out of mercy for human weakness. Its called Oikonomia. A Greek Orthodox deacon once explained it to me. The church has all these canons but often does not abide by them out of sympathy for people.

Some rules are there to be broken as the old saying goes. Jesus said that we ought not to be like the Pharisees and bind burdens on people that are too hard to bear.

Therefore Pope Francis ignores certain canon laws when he feels that they are unnecessarily restrictive. Good for him! Jesus would be proud IMHO.

He's the Pope. He can do it if he likes and it sets a good example in that respect I think.

It lets the world know that we are not scrupulous Pharisees fearful to disobey innumerable "laws" that are not biblical or received directly from Sacred Tradition.

That is not a life of loving faith in Christ but misery under the weight of the "law" that Christ broke, destroyed and internalized.

From numerous people in support of gay marriage:
We have new hope in Pope Francis. He is removing the shroud of darkness from the Church and will bring us into the new century where we all have equal rights. His message of love and inclusion is a breath of fresh air for gay marriage.

Will never happen, so you need not worry. Doctrinally, the church can never bless gay unions as natural. Gay marriage is not possible within the church. Some Catholics -including bishops - are actually OK with civil partnerships that are purely secular in nature between people of the same gender inasmuch that we wont go crazy about society accepting such unions so long as the rights of the church are protected and it is not forced upon churches. However gay people will never be able to "marry" in a Catholic Church. It is a sacrament between a man and a woman, a covenant enshrined in nature. One of its salient parts is an openness to life "be fruitful and multiply" that homosexual relationships by their very nature cannot fulfil.

Recognition of the rights of gay people is different however. There is nothing sinful or wrong about being gay. Some people are simply born attracted to their own gender. We must always speak out against prejudice towards homosexual people on behalf of their human dignity.

From numerous people who want women priests:
Thank God for Pope Francis. We finally have a shot at equal rights for women.

Again you need not worry. Women priests is not part of the church's sacred tradition received from the Apostles. There will never be women priests because the church has no authority to confer priestly ordination on women.

There is some genuine debate about whether women deacons were once actually part of the church's sacred orders. That is still a topic for debate until the church rules on the matter but women priests will never be possible.


#5

[quote="Elzee, post:1, topic:321423"]
From numerous people in support of gay marriage:
We have new hope in Pope Francis. He is removing the shroud of darkness from the Church and will bring us into the new century where we all have equal rights. His message of love and inclusion is a breath of fresh air for gay marriage.

[/quote]

Despite a recent New York Times article, I don't think he supports gay marriage or civil unions. This article strongly belies that notion:

catholicnewsagency.com/news/claims-that-pope-supported-gay-civil-unions-disputed/


#6

Pope Francis is reaching out to the poor. The violence against women and girls is tremendous around the world. The washing of women's feet is making a statement in support for the dignity of woman who is reduced to being used for sex and hard labor.

The Holy Father is also stating that ordained priests who cannot follow the discipline of celibacy should leave.

The use of novenas throughout the world, I might add, Vouthon, has never declined


#7

I imagine the warm fuzzies will disipate from the hetrodox when they realize he is Catholic.


#8

People are going to misunderstand Pope Francis. That's a guarantee. People misunderstand every pope -- just as they misunderstood Jesus.

Some people like to bring everything back to their pet issues and they interpret everything they see through that lens. And any sign that points however indirectly to the possibility that they might get their way is going to be something they will cling to fiercely.

Don't worry, they'll figure it out eventually when such "reforms" fail to happen. And for some reason they will be totally "shocked" that Francis is standing up for traditional Catholic moral teaching.


#9

I'm surprised it hasn't already. Christ Crucified does appear to be the message, and it does seem true he desires to be among the poorest of the poor seeking Christ. We should embrace this message to the best of our ability, and waste no time on speculation. He may place a 50-year moratorium on doctrine, just speculating. :)


#10

[quote="Elzee, post:1, topic:321423"]
Over the past couple weeks I have heard the following

From a priest at Mass:
Pope Francis is teaching us we no longer have to be trapped by the laws of the Church that do not make sense. By washing women's feet he showed us that we can ignore them (many of us have been for years anyway), that we are smart people and can figure things out for ourselves.

From numerous people in support of gay marriage:
We have new hope in Pope Francis. He is removing the shroud of darkness from the Church and will bring us into the new century where we all have equal rights. His message of love and inclusion is a breath of fresh air for gay marriage.

From numerous people who want women priests:
Thank God for Pope Francis. We finally have a shot at equal rights for women.

Have any of you experienced this? What is going on?

[/quote]

Such would be very much a misunderstanding of the Pope and of the Church....


#11

That certain of the faithless have argued for woman’s ordination, gay marriage, and disobedience to Church law is no reason to be upset with Pope Francis.


#12

Both heterosexuals and homosexuals are called by Christ to the same standards of chastity and observation of the natural law. Likewise there is nothing in Catholic teachings to mistreat homosexual persons.

Christ always stands before the door of the heart of every human being.

But heterosexual marriages has been the bedrock of stable society since the beginning of civilized society. Sex out side of committed marriage has great and destructive impact on society and it is the women and children who suffer the most when men use them as objects with no care for them and their welfare.

Another side effect of sexual promiscuity is sexually transmitted diseases.

Chastity should be practiced within Christian marriage as well.


#13

The pope will not teach against faith and morality. He is working on the image of the Church. But people think the Curia or Vatican 'owns' all this wealth.

The wealth of the Church is more a tremendous and profound praise to God and His work of creation. The wealth of the Vatican belongs to nobody but God but there are those who think individual clerics own the buildings, art work and finances, that are God's wealth and intended to support the Church and its believers, especially in the building of new dioceses.

The ancient Roman church was always seen as the final arbitrator of disputes, and the source of financial and other material support in building new church sites in other parts of the ancient world in establishing the Christian faith.

So he is addressing this modern spin that the Catholic Church is so rich when in fact, the art work is priceless, it is open to be enjoyed by the public, irregardless of people's attitudes about the Church, and works hard to administrate the laity offerings for the welfare of the Church. So there is some kind of talk going around that there has been some recent mishandling of finances that Francis is now working on as well.

When people contribute financially to the Church, it is always seen as contributing to God Himself for His people and not to the Vatican of itself.


#14

I think Pope Francis is a very simple man who connects with with the poor. One thing I think that people tend to forget is that he is very conservative on his views regarding Church doctrine and even if he wasn't, it would be very hard to change certain views regarding women ordination etc. A rift or split within the Catholic church would probably be inevitable if something like this would take place. We must always support his holiness and trust that the Holy Spirit is working through him. In my view Church doctrine has to have its foundation in Holy scripture.:thumbsup:


#15

[quote="Elzee, post:1, topic:321423"]
Over the past couple weeks I have heard the following; (this isn't just about foot washing - please read the whole thing)

From a priest at Mass: ...
From numerous people in support of gay marriage:...
From numerous people who want women priests:...

[/quote]

I've heard things like that. Yes.

I've also heard things from people who are disappointed because they think Pope Francis is way too "old fashioned".

[quote="Elzee, post:1, topic:321423"]
Have any of you experienced this? What is going on?

[/quote]

There are a lot of people out there (including clergy) who think natural law and dogmas are merely disciplines of the Church. :shrug: They are wrong but apparently to them it is not obvious.

We can all ague as to whether or not it is fortunate that they don't leave the Church over it.


#16

[quote="SMHW, post:15, topic:321423"]
I've heard things like that. Yes.

I've also heard things from people who are disappointed because they think Pope Francis is way too "old fashioned".

There are a lot of people out there (including clergy) who think natural law and dogmas are merely disciplines of the Church. :shrug: They are wrong but apparently to them it is not obvious.

We can all ague as to whether or not it is fortunate that they don't leave the Church over it.

[/quote]

If he's annoying both uber-conservatives and uber-liberals, he's probably getting it just about right ;)


#17

[quote="Elzee, post:1, topic:321423"]
Over the past couple weeks I have heard the following; (this isn't just about foot washing - please read the whole thing)

From a priest at Mass:
Pope Francis is teaching us we no longer have to be trapped by the laws of the Church that do not make sense. By washing women's feet he showed us that we can ignore them (many of us have been for years anyway), that we are smart people and can figure things out for ourselves.

From numerous people in support of gay marriage:
We have new hope in Pope Francis. He is removing the shroud of darkness from the Church and will bring us into the new century where we all have equal rights. His message of love and inclusion is a breath of fresh air for gay marriage.

From numerous people who want women priests:
Thank God for Pope Francis. We finally have a shot at equal rights for women.

Have any of you experienced this? What is going on?

[/quote]

Haven't really experienced it personally (as opposed to the internet comments).

What is going on is people read headlines or skim articles to get just enough information to support THEIR belief (rather than finding out the whole story), then spreading it as absolute truth. I'm beginning to think this is becoming the largest American past-time. :(


#18

My “two cents”.

Recent conversation with Deacon in my parish; he stated that, following Vatican II, many priests (speaking of US, now) seem to have gone “their own way” and made decisions regarding liturgy, doctrine, etc. that were not intended by that Council. So…this priest might be among those? As for Pope Francis supporting gay marriage…that is patently absurd. And women priests…perhaps some day but I doubt very much this is the time. The Church is in crisis around the world. I think we need a stable hand at the helm.


#19

I am beginning to see Pope Francis as the "Soup Kitchen" Pope. And I mean that in the most positive way possible. Here is a man sitting in the Chair of Peter showing the world what the Beatitudes are all about in a most concrete and positive way. Bravo Holy Father!


#20

[quote="OraLabora, post:16, topic:321423"]
If he's annoying both uber-conservatives and uber-liberals, he's probably getting it just about right ;)

[/quote]

I don't know that I would have worded it that way but I basically agree. :D


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