Is colonization itself sinful?

yes, I agree that is a strange argument, though it seems like the Spanish fought the least with the mayans, at least initialy, later conquisadors were a different matter

thanks for the clarification, it’s so hard to dfind unbiased sources these days.

are you familiar with the pope’s papal bulls, dum diversas and romanus pontifex, that deals more with Africa, but people tend to bring those up too, as the pope endorsing conquest and slavery

Here is a thread on dum diversas

I will have to come back to Romanus Pontifex later

Plus, here an article regarding slavery: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/did-the-church-ever-support-slavery

One could say they exist because of premarital sex and so it must not be wrong? It’s not only a question of treating the people you are colonizing as equal. You also take their land and their homes and take control and treat them like second class citizens in their own homeland. At least that is what happened in the past

yeah, I had already read those, but I mean, if something is immoral now, wasn’t it in the past also? I do know, generally, people say this was partly due to muslim invasion and the response to that, but it’s not very clear.

I guess that’s the problem with papal bulls, we dont’ always have the context, or what they are a response to.

Not necessarily, because words change. The word “slavery” and “slave” has changed since the American slave trade. Example:

  • when prisoners today are put to work, cleaning up the road, making license plates, cleaning a park, etc.; we do not call them slaves anymore. But in ancient times & before the American Slave trade, people would have considered prisoners doing work to be slaves.

The word “slave” was used to more broad. An indentured servants was considered a slave, until approx the 1700s

Throughout the ancient world “slavery” was used as a form of prison for criminals and POWs (esp POWs). HOWEVER, they always has the ability to earn their freedom.

The Church never condoned slavery, but recognized that it was a fact of life. While the Church never condoned slavery, they also condemned people convincing slaves to revolt, escape, etc. NOT because they supported the slave masters, but because it was dangerous for slaves.

What made the American Slavery situation worse was the fact that people were considered to slaves purely based on their looks. Not because they were prisoners.

correct.

it can all get very confusing. especially wne people attack the church with it. though to be far, perhaps the popes in the 1500s did not ealize how far their bulls would be taken.

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You could make a very good case for colonization of Somalia.

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