But Steve, I am in His Church/Ekklesia. As are all in whom the Holy Spirit dwells.
The answer is simple.
Look at all the examples in scripture. Were those who left Jesus also called (disciples) AND not the 12 in the following example It doesn’t number them, but considering the day before, there were 5000 Jesus fed, and many of THEM followed Jesus, it’s a good possibility there were lots of them to hear Jesus. And following is how brother is used. It’s a broader sense than people want to give it
Re: brother please read
It’s not just Church
But in (Acts 9:31) the Ἡ μὲν οὖν ἐκκλησία καθ’ ὅλης τῆς = ekklesia kataholos = Catholic Church
It’s been that way from the beginning
Ok - I think I understand what you’re saying. Let me try and read it back. When the Catholic Church in Unitatis redintegratio (“UR”) says:
“For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect”
It actually means:
“If you’re not Catholic you’re not really a follower of Christ no matter what you believe, but we’ll still call you brothers to be nice.”
This, by the way is exactly what many Protestant views are of UR. To whit - “Yes, the Catholics are trying to act like they are ecumenical, call us “brothers”, and that they recognize that people other than Catholics can love and serve Christ, but they really think all Protestants are heretics and going to hell.”
I think those Protestants are dead wrong. I think that UR means exactly what it says. I think that you don’t have to be a scholar to understand what the words “brother” and “communion” mean. I am thankful for the humility and love that the Catholic Church extended to us “separated brethren” in spite of our “imperfect communion”, and I am prayerful and hopeful that one day that communion might be perfected by and through the grace and power of Christ, our shared Lord and Savior.
Hi. I originally started this thread, and I also recently started the thread on the Methodist decision and possible eventual schism:
So to take a specific example for this thread in particular, how would Protestants perceive division in the Methodist community? If new denominations/schisms result, is this tolerable? Is it painful for practical reasons, but not ultimately un-Christian? etc.
Okay, then I’m part of the Christ Universal/Kataholos Church/Ekklesia as are all in whom the Holy Spirit Dwells.
Yes, this where folks chime in"relativism", the catch all to defend sectarianism.
Jesus does not have a Catholic side, nor an Orthodox one or Protestant. He is not a respector of a person’s in that regard, when it comes to saving someone. He is not like doctors today who ask if you are paying cash or thru insurance and is it private or Medicare etc. .It’s free to all who ask.
All a church can do is bring you to the well, Jesus, and now the drink is between the thirsty and Jesus. Now discipling is something else.
I have no doubt that you are a great, God fearing Christian. But we always have to ask the question, does doctrine matter? If so, how much of it matters, and who determines that and by what authority are they doing so.
Agreed, doctrinal differences do matter. Unfortunately, there is currently no basis for reconciling the doctrinal differences and restoring unity to the Church because there are fundamental differences in what constitutes the means by which doctrine is authoritatively declared. One side would claim that doctrine is authoritatively declared by virtue of the authority derived from its office. The other side would claim that the authority of the office is derived from faithfulness to the gospel handed down by the apostles. While this may sound trivial to some, it is an important distinction.
What? Good Lord, no! I assent to and obey the Church’s teaching that the fullness of salvation is found in the Catholic Church, and that anyone who reaches Heaven has done so through the Catholic Church. But that leaves an awful lot of grey area. As any number of Popes and Doctors of the Church have taught, salvation is available to non-Catholics … even though this side of the veil, they might lack a full understanding of what it is that’s saved them. The lack of sacraments such as Confession and Extreme Unction is not good news however you cut it, but it’s not an insuperable barrier to everyone. There is always hope, and all the more so for their being our (partly separated) brothers in Christ.
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