Is Escapism becoming defiled?

I have been hearing things about how people like characters getting tragic endings in escapist epics, to the point where they’re glad that their dead because of a ‘genuine threat’ or ‘breaks the norm’ or we need to ‘break away from tradition’ which has also become an excuse for immoral behavior

And as I said, if any romantic couples make it or it ends like the way the Harry Potter saga did or Lord of The Rings did they think its ‘uninteresting’ or pull the ‘sunshine and rainbows’ guilt trip or had it easy, not even resurrection themes like LOTR or Chronicles of Narnia, and as I understood even Game of Thrones out of all things has it (yet nobody brings it up as much as they praise the franchise, book or show for being ‘realistic’)

because ‘people do not find it interesting’

if that is the case

Then I think something is wrong with us

I mean, something is popular does not make it always right (unless it is supported by good reasons)

And how low can you make your expectations until you just don’t want good things to happen?

I mean with ISIS, sappy economy, riots over Politically Correct nonsense

Isn’t the respond to make kind of stories like oh say Full Metal Alchemist, D.Gray Man, One Piece in order to counter that, In the writers sense I mean?

Like, How do we know there are people who DO find it interesting and are just feeling guilty for doing so because we are making that audience feel inferior to the point the just assimilate just to ‘have b-words’

I mean, it seems only My Hero Academica and Once Upon a Time seems to be the few bits of entertainment besides Video Games that are only showing otherwise right now

And they’re fighting this negativity alone

Seriously, we find burning a child alive, more interesting than the final battle at Hogwarts, we think stories of greater good sacrifice fodder are more meaningful than two brothers like Edward and Alphonse Elric fight and witness some serious twisted things and live to come home to Winry and she and Ed become a thing.

I just think this is a problem and we think its ‘saving’ people, when-and this is the ironic part-in reality, we are just making compromises with tragedy and even making friends with it, that we are being told not to ask or want anything and just accept things no matter what they are, and just let heroes die at the end

Maybe not literally, maybe not entirely, but our attitude is descending to that level, and I don’t think its healthy

I mean I get it

Sacrifices must be made, tragedy happens, I mean I wouldn’t enjoyed Harry Potter, Lord of The Rings, or Star Wars if that was the case

And I do like gritty dark shows, I mean if I didn’t I wouldn’t have enjoyed Hellsing Ultimate, Claymore, or Vampire Hunter D.

But even if this problem is not in RWBY, I still think there is a problem in most entertainment as well as the attitude of the modern audience

Its the whole “Risk” thing…I don’t mean risk in general but more like how “Risk” in fiction is taken now-a-days

Like, couples that risk their lives for each other today now MUST have a tragic end

Like “Risk” automatically must end in tragedy

“I would die for you” means “Oh he said he would die for her, better kill him off in the end”

I mean, really?

Can it be possible for them to say that and NOT end up dying in the end?

I mean when does this go too far? Where do we draw the line? When do we stop?

Like now not one, single, couple can make it in the end in shows like RWBY, Akame Ga Kill, or what have you anymore because they “would die” for others which automatically means they MUST die in the end or else their victory is ‘cheap’

it seems like we are at the point where despite all the hell these characters go through, we are like

“Eh, Hermione and Ron never knew true risk because they made it in the end” even though Ron lost a brother and even friends and teachers

“Bah, Ed and Winry never knew true risk because they made it in the end” regardless of the twisted and unholy things Ed and Al had witnessed that challenged their faith in humanity

“Pfft, Nice Holystone and Jacuzzi Splot had it easy, they made it in the end” even though they weren’t immortals and how much they’ve stuck their necks out for each other and risked their lives for each other because they couldn’t bare to see each other suffer, or anyone else suffer. I mean, they and their gang are actually good people, Jacuzzi even went out of his way to try and save everyone on the train.

“Wait, Aragorn and Arwen are safe together now? No red wedding at the end? What a cop out” regardless how Sauron wanted their heads and hounded Aragorn’s royal hide to even the land of the dead while hounding poor Frodo and Sam who were nearly driven mad by the Ring and seen the horrors of war and Orc brutality

Not literally in words but that seems to be the attitude, this callous, insensitive, attitude. All because they weren’t a ‘they almost made it’ trope. It seems almost inhuman.

That because they had each other through and through their hardships can be easily waved away

which anyone who can see what they suffered through can easily point that out to be completely untrue

Im not saying everything is sunshine and rainbows

But having a romantic couple making it to the end of the series does not make their suffering less awful

Am I reading too deep into this?

Ummmm…what?. Too lengthy for my poor little mind… Peace

I like happy endings.

I don’t see people complaining because things turn out all right for Arwen and Aragorn, (although in the end it was somewhat tragic for her.)

Maybe you watch too much TV? Most of the characters you mention I never heard of.

.We have short attention spans. Shorter posts would get you more readers.

.

I do find it strange in nearly every movie I have seen, usually the ‘good guy’ does win, seems like in todays world that would be different.

Its just entertainment…tastes change over time, then change back. Nobody wants reality. Even reality shows aren’t!

Yep, probably. :smiley: I think it’s what you pick to watch/read/listen to. I would agree that there’s a lot more torture, blood, gore, and gratuitous everything these days, but if you’re picky about what you watch, there’s a good amount of cheery stuff still existing. (:

Especially if you just throw out the modern stuff and go back a few decades. There’s nothing like a binge-watching-night of Welcome Back Kotter. XD

“Repeat to yourself, ‘It’s just a show, I should really just relax.’”

  • MST3K Theme Song

It’s time to raise the alarm. More and more TV shows and movies are downright immoral. And even hero TV shows show the hero making a deal with a man who is only a few notches up from the devil. That’s not being heroic, that’s “The ends justify the means.” More deviant sexuality, bare boobs… the list goes on.

Dysfunctional is the new character template. Please stay away from it. Instead of a story that really entertains, you’ve got brutality from the good guy and bad guy. Gritty? No – evil.

Ed

Ironically I stumbled upon Warhammer Age of Sigmar and unlike its other universes, there seems to be genuine good vs evil here, flawed characters but not at a dysfunctional level (saving a few dwarf fractions but even then they don’t define the whole thing)

Warahammer isn ow making universes where its not bigoted or run by a moral relativist materialist Emperor but rather a GOOD one

When that happens it makes me think “Wow has it really come to this?” Not that Im complaining about this Warhammer thing, if its genuine epic heroic fantasy/sci-fi/adventure/pulp/noir I’m all for it

Age of Sigmar? Really? That is good news. “genuine good vs evil”? Perhaps the age of dark, dark, dark and more dark games and novels has run its course.

Ed

Still learning about it but so far thats what it seems

Still modern audiences see the likes of Harry Potter, Full Metal Alchemist, Sailor Moon, Inuyasha, Lord of The Rings as “Mistakes”

and that dark tragedy stories like Madoka Magica, Game of Thrones, Akame Ga Kill are the ones that “Fix” said “Mistakes”

all under the delusion of “progress” and “evolution” which we know is the common cause of most immorality today

Well, when people worship the god Change, things can’t stay stable. Stability is good but there’s no money in it. Strife is better since people seek out those who would help them, which is good for business.

Acts 17:21

New International Version
“(All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)”

New Living Translation
“(It should be explained that all the Athenians as well as the foreigners in Athens seemed to spend all their time discussing the latest ideas.)”

English Standard Version
“Now all the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there would spend their time in nothing except telling or hearing something new.”

Ed

Darkness, if used effectively, can make a story wonderful.

After all, if the world is consumed by an almost oppressive evil and most protagonists are heroes in name only, that only makes the actions of truly heroic characters all the more inspiring, even if they don’t succeed.

Using an example that Retro Ace list, I feel that Madoka Magica is one of the greatest pieces of Japanese animation and it’s darkness was required.

It was one of the most depressing shows I’ve ever watch. I almost dropped it at eighth episode or so because it was almost too much, but I decided to stick through it since I wasn’t that far from the last episode… And I’m glad I did because it showed one of the greatest examples of heroism and selfless love the medium has.

The heroine, in the end, more or less sacrifices herself. That much is true. While she exists as a cosmic force, most everyone in the universe forget that she even existed. It sounds like a cruel fate… But she did it out of love, not just for her friends, but all the girls that came before her and would come after. She could have simply walked away and lived a normal life… But instead she chose to give everything up to ease the suffering of others.

The overwhelming darkness of the show was needed for the end.

I, for one, am tired of this relatively new desire to put the word dark in the title and then make the story so dark that it is depressing, not entertaining. Entertainment has its light and dark and even occasional humorous moments, but in helping to build worlds where I work, the ratio of light to dark means dark is minimal. So yes, defiled is the right word. From Hollywood to independent commercial creators, too often they scoop out another bunch of vile and disgusting things from the bottom of the barrel, because they want to be gritty or realistic or free.

I’ve got news for Hollywood and everyone else who moves in that direction - no standards and no limits are not entertaining. I don’t find lots of blood and guts entertaining. I don’t find images of people doing more and more violent and bloody and vicious things to other people entertaining. I don’t want any of that in my head. I’ve seen dead bodies. I’ve taken them down to the morgue. That’s where all this realism needs to end up - as medical waste. It’s sick, and cultivating sick thoughts and images is not healthy.

Ed

But the question is… How dark is too dark?

Lord of the Rings ends with the hero’s failure. When all is said and done, Frodo fails to destroy the One Ring, and he had more chance of success than anyone else. Victory only comes because of Gollum’s twisted desire for his “precious” which consumed him and the Ring.

Arthurian stories are filled with flawed, even sometimes immoral protagonists.

One of the earliest stories in the English language, Beowulf pretty gruesome with its violence.

Where is the line drawn?

Every media organization has to follow certain Standards and Practices. Take Hollywood. In order to get a PG-13 rating, for example, it’s all written down: You can do this but not this.

At the company I work for, we follow standards that are family friendly. As an editor and writer, I follow the Hays Code with a few exceptions (also known as The Motion Picture Production Code).

Ed

This is why I refuse to watch Game of Thrones.

Well Frodo didn’t entirely fail and sure Gollum did play a role but it didn’t entirely count, at least to me

yes Arthurian stories did had flawed characters but it was because they were human

Violence doesn’t phase me too much be honest, only when its on grindhouse/splatterhouse levels do I get sick (though I did enjoy Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust)

Madoka Magica just got me angry and it seems like I said, people are seeing them as corrections to ‘mistakes’ in the 80’s and 90’s regardless of how well the story was written or what the heroes struggled through

and its even turning teenagers and some adults into vicious scoundrels who mock, ridicule, and spit on writers and audience members who say otherwise often given the ‘sunshine and rainbows’ guilt trip or even called ‘cowards’ or ‘insane’ or profane words I cant repeat on this website

Heck I’ve known a friend who didn’t like what happened in RWBY and made a critique about it and others told him he was an awful person of thinking that and to even kill himself for it

We are now telling writers and audience members who don’t like these kind of epics and write different ones to not write or even worse kill themselves…just think about that for a moment, its become that imposing

We are guilting and hurting people into conforming to this narrative under some delusion this will ‘progress’ things or emphasize the importance of the ‘greater good’

See, that’s the thing about these stories; they can be interpreted different ways. Truly great works of fiction inspire people.

For the record, I don’t believe that Frodo failed. No one else could have gotten the One Ring as far as he did… Yet without Gollum’s obsession (and just as importatly, Bilbo’s mercy in “The Hobbit”) the story would have ended there.

Likewise, I don’t see Madoka as really being critical or hateful to what came before it. It deconstructs some of the aspects of “magic girl” anime, does so brutally… But then shows a protagonist who actually embodies everything they are supposed to; pure, perfect innocent love.

It’s not a show for everyone, but I have much different feeling when I got done viewing it than you seemed to. I found the ending hopefully, even if the rest of the show wasn’t.

Of course, you’re not wrong about certian elements in fandom. They are awful… But most of them are teenagers still in that rebellious and angry phase of their life or adults that never outgrew it.

Mind you, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with telling people that if they don’t like certian elements in fiction to write their own story… I mean, my own dissatisfaction with most fantasy - whether it’s banal heroic fantasy where it feels as if the heroes face no real danger, or dark fantasy where it feels like the sole purpose is to make a world WORSE than our own - is what inspired me to write my own tale of heroes, villains. and people.

I mean Im inspired by RWBY but I honestly cant go though the rest of it after the V3 finale following with V4, and I’d rather not get into it.

Thats why Im writing Lorekeeper reincarnate these characters into new ones, give them happy endings, and with reason

In fact my main character is an underdog who’s fed up with these kind of stories and goes out of his way fighting whats been causing this and killing the infection at the source, a ‘Hero of Heroes’ so to speak, a hero that saves the heroes

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