Is every marriage 'act' supposed to be done under the pretense of creating a child?


#1

I know catholics do not believe in any form of birth control. Are catholics allowed to have marital relations with their spouse just for the enjoyment or does it ALWAYS have to be to create life? And if you do not want children for a year or so after youre first married does that mean you CANT make love to your spouse?


#2

It isn’t about what we want it’s about God’s will. If you have serious reasons to delay having children you may use Natural Family Planning (there are variations of methods but it is not the old rhythm method.)

The reason include financial difficulty, medical problems, psychological problems and others. They do not include personal freedom, material reasons and similar things.

I have a life threatening heart condition. I have one child and have used NFP almost since her birth and it works, she is nine years old and I have not become pregnant. With NFP you refrain from sex during your fertile period if you have very serious reason for not having a child at that time. Fertile period -with the method I use - is determine by body temp and physical signs.

NFP when used to space children or limit children must be used prayerfully so that is not used selfishly as just another form of contraception. Couples must continue to pray and seek guidance from the Holy Spirit.

A good priest can give you guidance on whether you have sufficient reason to avoid pregnancy at this time if you are unsure.
CCL (Couple to Couple League) is a great resourse to learn about NFP.

God Bless.


#3

[quote=Lost Child]I know catholics do not believe in any form of birth control. Are catholics allowed to have marital relations with their spouse just for the enjoyment or does it ALWAYS have to be to create life?
[/quote]

There is about a week in a woman’s monthly cycle where she is fertile. Sexual relations at other times of the month would obviously be for enjoyment and marital bonding.

Natural Family Planning is a form of fertility “organization” that is ALWAYS open to life.

And if you do not want children for a year or so after youre first married does that mean you CANT make love to your spouse?

You can make love to your spouse anytime. Natural Family Planning allows a wife to know when the most probable time for the couple to conceive is- and avoid relations for that week or so.

The couple isn’t using anything but the tools God gave them to make or postpone babies.

That is the Catholic perspective.


#4

I have heard of this natural family planning idea. I have two children of my own and personally that is all i wanted. I have never taken birth control of any kind because i dont like the long term effects on MY body. I have talked to nurses and doctors…all have begged me to take something. (My husband does what a certain brother in law did for his brothers widow and was killed by God for…:S) We do this because we were told (by those doctors and nurses) it is actually more efficient in preventing births than the family planning system. They told me a nickname for the natural family planning method is the “parenting method” becuase those who follow it more times than not BECOME parents.

This was a good question and i have been wondering about it myself. I have been studying the Faith for some time now looking for something to believe in. I am currently in a divorce and hoping to get an annulment… (my husband told me he has been gay since he was a teenager but wanted a family thats ‘right’…:mad: )

But why is it so wrong to stop wanting children after you have a family already? I mean God will always provide for the children you create, but if it is just a personal preference is that very wrong?


#5

[quote=Lost Child]Are catholics allowed to have marital relations with their spouse just for the enjoyment or does it ALWAYS have to be to create life?
[/quote]

Catholics are absolutely free to enjoy conjugal relations with their spouses to express their love and affection, etc. What they may not do, however, is impede the procreative orientation of the conjugal acts they engage in.

As far as I know, Catholics don’t have to consciously intend that they’re going to have relations just to have a baby. The spouses’ immediate thought might just be to give themselves to each other; the thought of a potential child might not be there. But that’s no problem whatsoever. The problem lies in making the conjugal act something it’s not— and that’s what happens when contraception is used.

And if you do not want children for a year or so after youre first married does that mean you CANT make love to your spouse?

If there are just reasons to space children, even indefinitely, then it’s ok for them to abstain from the conjugal act during times of fertility. That might be one week/ every month (varies).


#6

Worthy, you have been given some very bad medical advice. NFP requires discipline and self control and some training. Given those elements, it is very reliable in most people. Some doctors still think it is the old rythm method. Some doctors think people just can’t be trusted to have so much discipline and self-control. Some are just sinners themselves and the truth makes them uncomfortable. I have a close friend who is a doctor and he received NO INFORMATION at all about NFP in med school (which he went thru less than 10 years ago).

I am sorry to hear about your marriage troubles. I fear I have no useful marital advice except to pray and ask for guidance ( and perhaps holy friends experienced in similar troubles). My prayers are with you.


#7

Oh, I pray that I can find the right words here for you. Every marriage act should be an expression of love. That love bonds the man and woman together, and occassionally bonds their DNA together to form a child. The love and the life aspects of marriage should never be separated, but that does not mean that each act must try for a new life. However, we should never purposely take the act and cut off all life giving posibility from it.

Worthy of Love, I am so sad for you. You are indeed worthy of love, and I hope you find God’s love here in the Catholic Church. What you describe is a marriage where the love and the life were separated by your husband. What your husband did, found in Genesis 38:9 was followed by the words in verse 10 What he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord… During your marriage act, your husband purposely separated the life giving posibility and now your marriage, (which was suppose to last a lifetime), is now in the process of being separated for life. Marriage should be for life, in both senses.

Back to the original question, I do not mean to imply that each and every act must be done for the sole purpose of creating a child. It is an expression of love, and love in it’s very nature is self-giving. Man gives himself to his wife, and wife gives herself to her husband. If both of them are fertile, this might result in the creation of a child. If one or both are not fertile at that time, no child will result.

Husband and wife reflect on a small scale the love between Christ and His Bride, the Church. Men are usually, like Jesus, always ready, always fertile. Women, are not always ready and not always fertile. Jesus always wants to give Himself to us, but we aren’t always in the mood (or even fertile) for Him. to give us new life.

I hope the beautiful teachings of the Catholic Church about marriage and love fall on fertile soil in your heart. Please keep in mind that the Bible says repeatedly that children are blessings, so we should have some fairly serious reasons if we don’t want our marriages to be blessed by another child.


#8

[quote=Lost Child]I know catholics do not believe in any form of birth control. Are catholics allowed to have marital relations with their spouse just for the enjoyment or does it ALWAYS have to be to create life? And if you do not want children for a year or so after you’re first married does that mean you CANT make love to your spouse?
[/quote]

If it was only for the purpose of creation, women past menopause and those who are infertile could never have relations! —KCT


#9

[quote=Lost Child]I know catholics do not believe in any form of birth control. Are catholics allowed to have marital relations with their spouse just for the enjoyment or does it ALWAYS have to be to create life?
[/quote]

If you are asking the question, "Can I spontaneously make love to my spouse just because I love them?”; the answer is emphatically YES!

And if you do not want children for a year or so after youre first married does that mean you CANT make love to your spouse?

You can use Natural Family Planning (NFP), AKA, the rythm method.

God Bless, and have a joyous marriage.

zhof nlrdd


#10

Natural Family Planning is NOT the Rythm method!!

*The Sympto-Thermal Method taught by the Couple to Couple League and most other teaching organizations uses the two natural signs of cervical mucus and the waking temperature plus certain information from the woman’s own previous cycle history, and these three factors are used together in a cross-checking way. *
ccli.org/nfp/effect1.shtml


#11

I have to say that this question I have raised myself and have come to the conclusion we have to use our own inner spirit given to us by God when it comes to making very personal choices. The church cannot give us the answers to certain questions and life decisions, but, mere guidance. The problem is that if it condones one thing then, it leaves itself open to being criticized for condoning something that people will misinterpret. I feel strongly that the church has done a great job of making us feel like we are sinning for just having sex with our spouses when we are not procreating.

Acts of love need to include sexual acts whether for procreating or not. Regarding contraception, I don’t use contraception because I don’t like the effects of it on my body, as someone else said. And, I wouldn’t want to risk the minor chance of having a child born with defects from taking it. Its relatively easy to understand your body and when you are fertile; If you read up on it. But, some people just don’t get stuff and are not in tune with their body. No matter how many times you try telling them, they won’t get it. And, I really believe that no matter what system you use, if God intends you to have a child, you are going to have one no matter what. I believe we will never be able to “control” things 100%. It all comes down to control and there is no such thing. So, from that standpoint, I have a hard time believing that if a married couple chooses to use certain methods such as withdrawel or vasectomy, that it is a sin. Neither one are truly 100% regardless. But, with anything, if people are not true to themselves, their love for one another, they could use these methods in a way that would potentially cause some major emotional, mental and physical problems. So, I believe a couple needs to work out these issues together and be in agreement of what is ok and what isn’t. We all have feelings about how many kids we want, and what we would do if we were ever to be divorced, widowed, etc. that need to be discussed w.our spouse.

I would have to bet that 90% of catholics have used contraception of some kind. Its undeniable. Is it seriously wrong in every case? I’m no so sure that Jesus would say that. Some people should have never had kids. For example, the mentally retarded, should they be allowed to have children??! I don’t think so. We need to find the right balance for things that will provide a peaceful, positive, and nurturing experience; this includes sex. Most of the churchings teachings on this are common sense philosophies that will protect us from hurting ourselves. The decision we make affects the lives of many and its undeniable that exceptions can be made…but, exceptions with extremely careful regard.


#12

[quote=Lost Child]I know catholics do not believe in any form of birth control. Are catholics allowed to have marital relations with their spouse just for the enjoyment or does it ALWAYS have to be to create life? And if you do not want children for a year or so after youre first married does that mean you CANT make love to your spouse?
[/quote]

Oh,my.The general public really thinks were strange,huh?:rolleyes: Look up NFP and read about it I think this will help.God Bless


#13

Chloe,

A lot more than 90% of catholics have trouble with telling lies, or being slothful, or taking the Lord’s name in vain. The fact that most people fail to live up to a standard does not make that standard invalid. Telling lies is not a sin because the church needed to invent a criteria to make people guilty.

Similarly, the teaching against contraception is not ‘made up.’ Sex under the use of ABC’s is inherently different than properly ordered married sex. Over time, use of ABC’s transforms married sex from a giving experience to a taking one.

Natural law is much like the material law; you can’t break the law of gravity by stepping off a cliff, you only suffer the consequences. Same goes for the natural law. Whether someone is aware of it or not, breaking it includes inherent consequences.


#14

[quote=manualman]Chloe,

A lot more than 90% of catholics have trouble with telling lies, or being slothful, or taking the Lord’s name in vain. The fact that most people fail to live up to a standard does not make that standard invalid. Telling lies is not a sin because the church needed to invent a criteria to make people guilty.

Similarly, the teaching against contraception is not ‘made up.’ Sex under the use of ABC’s is inherently different than properly ordered married sex. Over time, use of ABC’s transforms married sex from a giving experience to a taking one.

Natural law is much like the material law; you can’t break the law of gravity by stepping off a cliff, you only suffer the consequences. Same goes for the natural law. Whether someone is aware of it or not, breaking it includes inherent consequences.
[/quote]

:clapping:

:bless you:


#15

[quote=manualman]Chloe,

A lot more than 90% of catholics have trouble with telling lies, or being slothful, or taking the Lord’s name in vain. The fact that most people fail to live up to a standard does not make that standard invalid. Telling lies is not a sin because the church needed to invent a criteria to make people guilty.

Similarly, the teaching against contraception is not ‘made up.’ Sex under the use of ABC’s is inherently different than properly ordered married sex. Over time, use of ABC’s transforms married sex from a giving experience to a taking one.

Natural law is much like the material law; you can’t break the law of gravity by stepping off a cliff, you only suffer the consequences. Same goes for the natural law. Whether someone is aware of it or not, breaking it includes inherent consequences.
[/quote]


#16

[quote=manualman]Chloe,

  • I’m not sure if you are in agreement with what I have said or not, but I don’t see that I disagree with what you said. (Except, in my book, lying is a sin). The main question is whether or not sex is for procreating only and I have been taught & believe it is not. And, if you are someone who has read about history, theology, etc., you clearly understand why we are taught to feel guilty and why it is important to really understand the purpose of a teaching before we make false interrpretations. I believe majority of people are good and choose to do good. The reason you get so many people who don’t follow something is because of lack of good teaching. And, maybe lack of good teaching because a. the leaders don’t want to upset people because they could loose them ultimately or b. if they face them they will need to face the issues and be forced to reform. We could use some reform in the church. Reform is good. And, we desparately need married priests so we could have better educated married people. :slight_smile: *
    A lot more than 90% of catholics have trouble with telling lies, or being slothful, or taking the Lord’s name in vain. The fact that most people fail to live up to a standard does not make that standard invalid. Telling lies is not a sin because the church needed to invent a criteria to make people guilty.

Similarly, the teaching against contraception is not ‘made up.’ Sex under the use of ABC’s is inherently different than properly ordered married sex. Over time, use of ABC’s transforms married sex from a giving experience to a taking one.

Natural law is much like the material law; you can’t break the law of gravity by stepping off a cliff, you only suffer the consequences. Same goes for the natural law. Whether someone is aware of it or not, breaking it includes inherent consequences.
[/quote]


#17

[quote=Lost Child]I know catholics do not believe in any form of birth control. Are catholics allowed to have marital relations with their spouse just for the enjoyment or does it ALWAYS have to be to create life?
[/quote]

It ALWAYS has to be “open to life”; whether life is created or not doesn’t matter as long as the act itself, or any action taken in anticpation of the sexual act does not intentionally interfere with or frustrate the act taken to its natural completion! (that is a mouthful! :slight_smile: )

And if you do not want children for a year or so after youre first married does that mean you CANT make love to your spouse?

Catholics can make love to their spouses when ever they want, nobody can tell them when they can or when they can’t make love, that is the absolutely true. The Church would never even presume to tell couples when they can or cannot have sexual relations.

However, if a married couple has serious reasons for wanted to either limit or space their children, they are more than welcome to abstain from sexual relations whenever they want-preferably during the times the woman is most fertile!

This should answer the question, if not let me know.


#18

Marriage act under pretext, not pretense, is what I think you mean, lost child. . .

The excellent answers you have received so far should reassure you.

Every act of sexual intercourse should be open to the possibility of life, but need not be done solely for the purpose of creating life.

Otherwise, we women would be limited to having sexual intercourse for a fraction of time during each month when we were fertile, and not for any of the rest of the time–or if we happened to be barren like Sarah once was, we wouldn’t be permitted sexual intercourse at all, since there would be no possibility of children!


#19

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