Is forbidding marriage...wrong?


#1

DOCTRINE: Popes, Preists, Nuns, ect. are not permitted to marry.

**BIBLE: Forbiding marriage is a “Doctrine of demons” (1 Timothy 4:1-3) The Overseers of the Church are permitted and encouraged to marry. (1 Timothy 3:2-5). Catholics claim that Peter was the first Pope. Peter was married. (Matthew 8:14)

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#2

Charity begets charity.


#3

Forbidding people to marry would be wrong.

People willingly choosing a vocation where they are not to marry is an exercise of free will.

The Church doesn’t forbid people to marry, IMHO.
But some people choose a vocation where they will remain single.
It’s not like this fact is sprung upon them as a surprise. “Guess what? After all those years of seminary, we just have to tell you - now you’re ordained - you can’t marry!”

This is true in all rites, but it is not true that all priests must remain single.

The Eastern Rite Catholics have married priests.


#4

My uncle, an Eastern Orthodox priest, told me of a case where a U.S. seminary switched from Orthodox to Eastern Catholic. In this case, there were seminarians who were engaged and planning to marry just prior to their ordination, who suddenly had a very difficult decision to make.


#5

[quote=PMV]DOCTRINE: Popes, Preists, Nuns, ect. are not permitted to marry.
[/quote]

The issues of priestly and religious celibacy is not doctrine. It is a discipline. It could change tomorrow, but it will not. At one time I myself considered the priesthood. I was often asked, how I could ever give up sex. It was a non-issue. Really it was. When someone considers the priesthood, one contemplates how they could ever be worthy to serve him in such a capacity. Catholics look at marriage and religious life as two distinct vocations. Some are called to marriage and some are called to religious life. Careful prayer and discernment are needed before entering either one. But in no way does the church forbid marriage.


#6

catholic.com/library/celibacy_and_the_priesthood.asp

This is the Catholic Answers tract on celibacy and the priesthood. Please take the time to read it.

Justin


#7

PMV,

This fits right in with your question on abstaining from meat, and shows the same ignorance of Catholic teaching.

Celibacy is a discipline, not a doctrine. The Eastern Rite churches are permitted to marry. It is a discipline in the Western (Latin, or Roman) church. Paul himself recommended celibacy, and there are sound reasons for maintaining the tradition.

It helps to know about the situation that Paul is discussing: he was condemning groups such as the Gnostics, who preached a dualism that regarded matter as evil. Marriage was forbidden by the Gnostics, since the body was evil (this is an over-simplification, I know, but I don’t have the time to fill in the blanks of your knowledge). If you want to charitably discuss these things, then fine, but the way you presented this and your post about abstaining from meat suggests you merely want to throw out a skewed interpretation of Catholic teaching and then run.


#8

[quote=PMV]DOCTRINE: Popes, Preists, Nuns, ect. are not permitted to marry.

BIBLE: Forbiding marriage is a “Doctrine of demons” (1 Timothy 4:1-3) The Overseers of the Church are permitted and encouraged to marry. (1 Timothy 3:2-5). Catholics claim that Peter was the first Pope. Peter was married. (Matthew 8:14)

[/quote]

Marriage is not forbidden in the Catholic Church; in the Catholic Church marriage is a Sacrament, a source of God’s grace for the couple and the Church. Although (Latin-rite) clerics and religious are now usually chosen from only avowed celibates, any cleric or religious who later finds the celibate lifestyle too difficult is free to leave the priesthood or religious life and get married and still be considered a faithful Catholic.


#9

Didn’t you ask this same question already? forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=214927
and got the same answers.


#10

Jesus actually approved not marrying for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven, not for all but for those who are called to it

Matthew 19:12 “For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and tere are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it”


#11

Here are some more:

“But I say to the unmarried and to the widows: It is good for them to remain even as I am; but if they cannot exercise self-control, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn.” (1Cor. 7:8,9)

“Then I looked and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s name written in their foreheads…These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being first-fruits to God and to the Lamb”. (Rev 14:1,4)

The writings of the Early Church Fathers also reveal how the earliest Christians cherished voluntary celibacy, “relinquishing a pleasure so honorable and permitted” in order to live “in closer communion with God”. I will be glad to post these if you like.
Paul


#12

PMV has posted all this stuff before and gotten these answers, but will keep posting them until he finds someone whose faith he can weaken. “-prowling about the earth seeking to devour the souls of men”


#13

PMV,

Just wondering… are you really Catholic? As in currently attending a Catholic Church regularly?


#14

[font=Times New Roman][size=3]The premises of the question would include Jesus and Paul, who were not married and therefore, were wrong. This, of course, is insane.

Protestant ministers who have converted to Catholicism have been ordained as Catholic priests, and are married. It’s uncommon, but not unheard of.

Matt. 19:11-12 - Jesus says celibacy is a gift from God and whoever can bear it should bear it. Jesus praises and recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church. Because celibacy is a gift from God, those who criticize the Church’s practice of celibacy are criticizing God and this wonderful gift He bestows on His chosen ones.

Matt. 22:30 - Jesus explains that in heaven there are no marriages. To bring about Jesus’ kingdom on earth, priests live the heavenly consecration to God by not taking a wife in marriage. This way, priests are able to focus exclusively on the spiritual family, and not have any additional pressures of the biological family (which is for the vocation of marriage). This also makes it easier for priests to be transferred to different parishes where they are most needed without having to worry about the impact of their transfer on wife and children.

1 Cor 7:7 - Paul also acknowledges that celibacy is a gift from God and wishes that all were celibate like he is.

1 Cor. 7:32-33, 38 - Paul recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church so that they are able to focus entirely upon God and building up His kingdom.

1 Tim. 3:2 - Paul instructs that bishops must be married only once. Many Protestants use this verse to prove that the Church’s celibacy law is in error. But they are mistaken because this verse refers to bishops that were widowers. Paul is instructing that these widowers could not remarry. The verse also refers to those bishops who were currently married. They also could not remarry (in the Catholic Church’s Eastern rite, priests are allowed to marry; celibacy is only a disciplinary rule for the clergy of the Roman rite). Therefore, this text has nothing to do with imposing a marriage requirement on becoming a bishop.

1 Tim. 4:3 - in this verse, Paul refers to deceitful doctrines that forbid marriage. Many non-Catholics also use this verse to impugn the Church’s practice of celibacy. This is entirely misguided because the Catholic Church (unlike many Protestant churches) exalts marriage to a sacrament. In fact, marriage is elevated to a sacrament, but consecrated virginity is not. The Church declares marriage sacred, covenantal and life-giving. Paul is referring to doctrines that forbid marriage and other goods when done outside the teaching of Christ.

Rev. 14:4 - unlike our sinful world of the flesh, in heaven, those consecrated to virginity are honored.

Isaiah 56:3-7 - the eunuchs who keep God’s covenant will have a special place in the kingdom of heaven.

Jer. 16:1-4 - Jeremiah is told by God not to take a wife or have children.

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/the_priesthood.html#priesthood-IV

If celibate clergy is wrong, then the Bible is wrong, the Church is wrong, and Jesus is wrong. I don’t think this is the case, do you, PMV?

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#15

And next on the anti-Catholic script is “call no man father” charge, right PMV? Followed by “Catholics worship Mary”, followed by every LIE ever printed against the Catholic Church by ignorant fundamentalists who have no interest in the truth about what Catholics believe, have distorted history, have next to no understanding of the teachings of the early Church, and don’t know how the Bible got here.

PMV, don’t be a sucker for hate mongers. None of their charges hold any truth whatsoever, none of their books or web sites teach the truth about the Catholic Church. Anybody who has to disprove something in order to support their truth can’t have truth to begin with. Truth doesn’t need any support, it stands on it’s own merits, or it’s not truth. Jack Chick and Dave Hunt and many like them KNOW they are lying, and don’t care; they are multi-millionairs. Now you show me, PMV, one Catholic book or web site that misrepresents any non-Catholic faith with misrepresentations, lies, and falshoods. You won’t find any, yet fundamentalists have hundreds of millions of them persecuting Catholicism.

Be careful. Don’t read that stuff. It’s evil.

kepha1


#16

[quote=PaulDupre]PMV has posted all this stuff before and gotten these answers, but will keep posting them until he finds someone whose faith he can weaken. “-prowling about the earth seeking to devour the souls of men”
[/quote]

False statement! The issues that I’ve posted are basically alike, but had DIFFERENT Bible verses that had to be explained (and were, God bless all of you)! Do not jump to conclusions when you don’t even know who I am. I AM Catholic and will NOT accept that kind of statement aimed at me!
The reason I posted it was for different explanations that I could possibly give to a fundamentalist.


#17

Im just curious on why you didnt say so to start with. Most Catholics who are looking for good apoligetic answers will introduce themselves as a catholic and that they need help on a particular subject. The way you posted I think makes alot of people suspicious and doutful of you.


#18

[quote=PMV]False statement! The issues that I’ve posted are basically alike, but had DIFFERENT Bible verses that had to be explained (and were, God bless all of you)! Do not jump to conclusions when you don’t even know who I am. I AM Catholic and will NOT accept that kind of statement aimed at me!
The reason I posted it was for different explanations that I could possibly give to a fundamentalist.
[/quote]

PMV,
I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that you were a troll. However, you must expect that assumption when you continually post all of the same tired old anti-Catholic questions that every fundamentalist posts, thinking he will stump us “ignorant Catholics”. And your style of posting is offensive: I looked up all of your previous posts. You always declare that the bible “proves” that Catholic teaching is wrong, then dare us to defend it. That sounds awfully troll-like to me. If you don’t want to be labeled a fundamentalist troll then don’t post like one.
I suggest that first you do your own homework. Read “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” by Karl Keating. It has the answers to all of your tired old questions, and some you probably haven’t thought of yet. That will save everyone here a lot of keystrokes.
I also suggest that you phrase your posts in the form of: "I am trying to answer a Protestant friend who has challenged me about… He cited…which says “…”. How should I answer him?
Grace to you,
Paul (who still has his doubts about PMV’s Catholicity)


#19

Dittos, Paul.


#20

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