Is God commanding murder here?


#1

Is God speaking in this passage? Is this His command? (Dt. 13:7-11)

7
If your brother, your father’s child or your mother’s child, your son or daughter, your beloved spouse, or your intimate friend entices you secretly, saying, “Come, let us serve other gods,” whom you and your ancestors have not known,
8
any of the gods of the surrounding peoples, near to you or far away, from one end of the earth to the other:
9
do not yield or listen to any such person; show no pity or compassion and do not shield such a one,
10
but kill that person. Your hand shall be the first raised to put such a one to death; the hand of all the people shall follow.
11
You shall stone that person to death, for seeking to lead you astray from the LORD, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

Yes or no?


#2

Murder is a death caused by a human without authorization or justification.


#3

It is a command to do the extreme necessary to not succumb to sin.


#4

This is a legal code for an ancient culture and should be seen in that context. So, NO, not murder; it maintains that Court ordered Justice may include capital punishment, but modern Christian teaching says this is even unnecessary.

The Priest Fr Haydock wrote this in his commentary to the Douay-Rheims on verse 9:

Verse:

9 But thou shalt presently put him to death. It Let thy hand be first upon him, and afterwards the hands of all the people.

Comentary:

Presently put him to death. Not by killing him by private authority, but by informing the magistrate, and proceeding by order of justice. …
— Thy hand. The accuser of witness first threw a stone, after the wretch had been conducted out of the city. C. xvii. 4. Acts vii. 58.


#5

Was Abraham killing or murdering his son when he laid him on the altar?
It all depends on whether it is justified or not justified.

But God does not have to justify anything since he is the law and can change the law at will. The law is whatever he says it is and he may suspend the law, change it, or do away with it. He is subject to no law since he is the maker of all laws and the law is what he says it to be at any given moment.

So God is always as pure as new snow in all that he does and wills.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.


#6

I appreciate the answers so far, but it’s a yes or no question. So is it yes or no?


#7

the Advocate - or the adversary?


#8

As I understand the replies so far, almost everyone has responded “no.” Rather than giving you a one-word answer, they gave you the explanation. If you like, I will reduce it to one word. No.


#9

Is it just me, or does this question make you want to sing?
Let me sleep on it
Baby, baby let me sleep on it
Let me sleep on it
I’ll give you an answer in the morning…
:slight_smile:


#10

No, it is capital punishment.

(If you are interested, Dt 17 lays out the specifics of the trial for idolaters.)


#11

So if the answer to the question is “no” (the question was “who was speaking, was this his command?”), then who is?

7
If your brother, your father’s child or your mother’s child, your son or daughter, your beloved spouse, or your intimate friend entices you secretly, saying, “Come, let us serve other gods,” whom you and your ancestors have not known,
8
any of the gods of the surrounding peoples, near to you or far away, from one end of the earth to the other:
9
do not yield or listen to any such person; show no pity or compassion and do not shield such a one,
10
but kill that person. Your hand shall be the first raised to put such a one to death; the hand of all the people shall follow.
11
You shall stone that person to death, for seeking to lead you astray from the LORD, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

So you say, “no,” it isn’t God issuing the command. Then who is?


#12

Thanks. I have no problem with subsequent explanations as long as it’s preceded with a yes or no, which was at the heart of the question.


#13

Sorry, I thought the title of your thread was the question.

Let’s go back to the three questions you posed in the OP:
[LIST=1]
*]Is God commanding murder here?
No.

*]Is God speaking in this passage?
Yes.

*]Is this His command?
Yes.
[/LIST]
Not every instance of man killing man is murder. The quoted passage describes capital punishment. Other exceptions include killing in self-defense and killing by negligence. There may be other exceptions.


#14

Thinking the title of my post was my question is entirely reasonable. It was a poorly chosen title, of course God would not condone murder. As someone earlier said, God is as pure as the new stone (a beautiful analogy, by the way).

However, since you say that God is speaking, and it is his command—as well as others saying that it is capital punishment—but what about the stoning? Isn’t that a cruel way of punishing someone in a capital way?


#15

This is very scary that you are even asking this question.

God is ALWAYS against murder and capital punishment.

THOU SHALT NOT KILL

Peace and Love is God.

One cannot take literally the vengeful fire and brimstone punishing God in the Old Testament.

God is love. God is Peace.

TOO MANY religions JUSTIFY KILLING in the Name of GOD!
He never would justify killing, never!!


#16

Yes, it is cruel.

I think that was the way of the Old Law. In Mark 10:5, Jesus said that the Old Law was strict and cruel because the people’s hardness of heart, but he taught the New Law based on love. I may be overextending Mark 10:5; there may be a better verse, but I am in a hurry. St. Paul also might have said something about Old vs. New Law.


closed #17

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