Is god really against drinking?


#1

Hey guys! So, I know that many people who are christians are against drugs and smoking, but not against drinking. Lets think of it like this: God said your body is a holy temple and that you should not destroy it. Doing drugs, drinking, or smoking is putting poison into your body which is basically destroying this 'holy temple'. So how would people who think drinking is a 'no-biggie' refute this?

I don't think drinking, doing drugs or smoking is wise at all. But I know there are believers who seem to do otherwise. Putting any sort of poison into your body isnt wise, especially when its known to be bad and is taught to be dangerous. Any drinkers here who care to refute what god says?

by the way, I know that drinking a glass of wine is actually good for the heart, but I'm mostly talking other alcoholic beverages.


#2

[quote="BlueShadow123, post:1, topic:212358"]
Hey guys! So, I know that many people who are christians are against drugs and smoking, but not against drinking. Lets think of it like this: God said your body is a holy temple and that you should not destroy it. Doing drugs, drinking, or smoking is putting poison into your body which is basically destroying this 'holy temple'. So how would people who think drinking is a 'no-biggie' refute this?

I don't think drinking, doing drugs or smoking is wise at all. But I know there are believers who seem to do otherwise. Putting any sort of poison into your body isnt wise, especially when its known to be bad and is taught to be dangerous. Any drinkers here who care to refute what god says?

by the way, I know that drinking a glass of wine is actually good for the heart, but I'm mostly talking other alcoholic beverages.

[/quote]

God is not against drinking but the abuse of it. Remember the first miracle performed by our lord was the multiplication of the wine at the wedding. Drugs used to treat the sick are not sinful either. I am not sure of any circumstance where smoking would be beneficial.


#3

[quote="BlueShadow123, post:1, topic:212358"]
Hey guys! So, I know that many people who are christians are against drugs and smoking, but not against drinking. Lets think of it like this: God said your body is a holy temple and that you should not destroy it. Doing drugs, drinking, or smoking is putting poison into your body which is basically destroying this 'holy temple'. So how would people who think drinking is a 'no-biggie' refute this?

I don't think drinking, doing drugs or smoking is wise at all. But I know there are believers who seem to do otherwise. Putting any sort of poison into your body isnt wise, especially when its known to be bad and is taught to be dangerous. Any drinkers here who care to refute what god says?

by the way, I know that drinking a glass of wine is actually good for the heart, but I'm mostly talking other alcoholic beverages.

[/quote]

Im pretty sure Jesus made are 180 gallons of wine as his first miracle.


#4

Im talking drugs like cocaine, ectasy, meth, heroin, acid…


#5

[quote="BlueShadow123, post:4, topic:212358"]
Im talking drugs like cocaine, ectasy, meth, heroin, acid...

[/quote]

Alcohol isn't like those other things. It's fine (and as you noted with red wine, even healthy) in moderation, but dangerous in excess. The Bible condemns drunkeness, but never condemns drinking. Jesus' first miracle, as the last two commenters noted, was the transformation of water into wine. Jesus drank enough that He was slandered as a drunkard, while John the Baptist was criticized for not drinking at all, since they thought he must therefore be possessed. Jesus even says He "came eating and drinking." See Luke 7:33-34. So we know from this that Jesus clearly drank at least some, or they would have mocked Him as they did John. Jesus didn't, on the other hand, do a little cocaine or a little meth, because those things are bad even in small quantities, and don't have any safe or medicinal benefits.


#6

Yeah but getting drunk isn't the healthiest thing either.


#7

[quote="BlueShadow123, post:6, topic:212358"]
Yeah but getting drunk isn't the healthiest thing either.

[/quote]

It's fine (and as you noted with red wine, even healthy) in moderation, but dangerous in excess.


#8

msnbc.msn.com/id/16173568/wid/11915773


#9

What are your opinions on marijuana?


#10

One has to take responsibility for one's actions.

If, through being drunk, you do something unconsidered or immoral then you sin because you were responsible for getting yourself into that state in the first place, even if your capacity to give a full assent to the sinful action was reduced by virtue of the fact that your mental functioning was temporarily incapacitated by inebriation.

God isn't against drinking as such. It's the over-indulgence that's the problem.

Overdoing drink is as bad as overdoing food or overdoing prescription drugs or many other things. They lead to raised probabilities of us harming ourselves or others and therefore we're morally culpable for the effects thereof.


#11

[quote="BlueShadow123, post:6, topic:212358"]
Yeah but getting drunk isn't the healthiest thing either.

[/quote]

But that is the only way I get through Mass at my parish! :p Just kidding. :D


#12

Marijuana follows the same principle, at least in the moral sense (the legal sense is different). It follows that overindulgence in such a substance will affect our capacity to behave normally or morally. It lowers inhibitions and therefore is, at best, a near occasion of sin. At worst it would seem to be a mortal sin in a person who has a strong tendency to commit immoral acts while under the influence.


#13

[quote="DexUK, post:12, topic:212358"]
Marijuana follows the same principle, at least in the moral sense (the legal sense is different). It follows that overindulgence in such a substance will affect our capacity to behave normally or morally. It lowers inhibitions and therefore is, at best, a near occasion of sin. At worst it would seem to be a mortal sin in a person who has a strong tendency to commit immoral acts while under the influence.

[/quote]

A lot of people actually think jesus was a 'stoner' and that weed is for the people of god to enjoy and use.

I'm unsure about that. I do not smoke weed or promote it, but did god actually smoke/get high off of it?

It also says that god did use marijuana for many purposes: hightimes.com/news/ht_admin/139

and this: cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc11/christ.html


#14

I think I’m going to need a LOT more persuading that Jesus used marijuana than I’m going to get from a couple of apparently pro-cannabis websites.


#15

Actually they included scriptures about it.
I started a new thread on it, i hope to get people answering because im really sick of people saying that god smoked weed. I dont think he did, because i think he’s smarter than that, but whatever. not my choice.


#16

[quote="BlueShadow123, post:13, topic:212358"]
A lot of people actually think jesus was a 'stoner' and that weed is for the people of god to enjoy and use.

I'm unsure about that. I do not smoke weed or promote it, but did god actually smoke/get high off of it?

It also says that god did use marijuana for many purposes: hightimes.com/news/ht_admin/139

and this: cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc11/christ.html

[/quote]

First, I don't bother looking for Truths from either of these publications, so you'll excuse me if I didn't bother clicking on them.

Second, nowhere in the Bible does it say that God is against drinking alcohol. What He is against is drunkenness. Your argument could be used equally effectively against eating. God isn't against food, however He is against gluttony.

Lastly, drinking alcohol does not make a person a drunk. Just like eating dinner does not make a person a glutton. The sin of drunkenness lies in the fact that one overindulges and allows his/her judgment to become impaired. Having a glass of wine, a beer, or even a cocktail does not cause an immediate lose of judgment. That only happens when an individual consumes more than they should. Cocaine, marijuana, meth, heroine, etc. are used specifically for the purpose of impairing judgment and getting "high." There is a large difference between the two. Now, for people who do have a problem controlling their drinking, having a glass of wine or a beer may indeed be a sin as they are willfully placing themselves in a situation where the temptation to continue to drink is too difficult to overcome (near occasion of sin). In essence, they are tempting themselves willingly and Catholics are called to avoid sin not go out looking for it and certainly not to play around with it by willingly tempting ourselves.


#17

"The consumption of alcohol to excess, such that one becomes tipsy and loses some physical self-control, but not the use of reason, is but a venial sin. The knowing and willing consumption of alcohol to such an extent as to remove the use of reason is a mortal sin."

Otherwise the consumption of alcohol is OK.


#18

[quote="BlueShadow123, post:13, topic:212358"]
A lot of people actually think jesus was a 'stoner' and that weed is for the people of god to enjoy and use.

I'm unsure about that. I do not smoke weed or promote it, but did god actually smoke/get high off of it?

It also says that god did use marijuana for many purposes: hightimes.com/news/ht_admin/139

and this: cannabisculture.com/backissues/cc11/christ.html

[/quote]

The argument is ridiculously stupid. Exodus 30:23 includes as one of the ingredients in the anointing oil qaneh besem. Besem (קָנֶה) means "sweet," while qaneh (בֶּשֶׂם) means stalk or reed. The phrase was translated as "sweet calamus" or "sweet cane."

Somewhere along the way, somebody noticed that qaneh-besem sounds (really vaguely) like cannabis, and decided -- based on that evidence, and little more -- that the plant we now call cannabis must be the plant they used to call qaneh-besem.

you mentioned that there were a "lot" of verses in the links. And that's true. There are a LOT of Bible verses which talk about anointing, and one verse which talks about the ingredients. That verse doesn't say anything about cannabis, so those other verses become irrelevant. Here's how your own link tries to "prove" its case:

This holy anointing oil, as described in the original Hebrew version of the recipe in Exodus (30:22-23), contained over six pounds of kaneh-bosem, a substance identified by respected etymologists, linguists, anthropologists, botanists and other researchers as cannabis, extracted into about six quarts of olive oil, along with a variety of other fragrant herbs. The ancient anointed ones were literally drenched in this potent mixture.

So far, there's no evidence at all - just "lots of people we at High Times think are smart said something we like." Does High Times *really *have the credibility to decide someone is a "respected etymologist," etc.? Let's continue:

Carl P. Ruck, the scholar who coined the term "entheogen," is a professor of classical mythology at Boston University, and has researched the history of psychoactive substances in religion for over three decades, working with such luminaries as the father of LSD, Albert Hoffman; entheobotanist Richard Evans Schultes, and mycologist R. Gordon Wasson.

Riiiight. Carl Ruck, as it says, made up the word "entheogen" to describe the process of "waking the God within." Albert Hoffman invented LSD. Schultes worked with Hoffman, as did Wasson. Wasson, Hoffman and Ruck co-authored a book claiming that the Eleusinian Mysteries also involved psychadelic drugs. Oh, did I mention that they were using magic mushrooms and LSD at the time? Because they were.

So you have a bunch of drug users who want to feel like this is "natural," so they make up a bunch of false history, and go with the slimmest threads of evidence. You'll note that none of the people listed were historians or (more importantly) etymologists.

The question is: how should Exodus 30:23 be interpreted? We have some good evidence, from how Hebrew-speakers in the past translated it ("sweet calamus"). In response to this, we don't get solid linguistic or historical evidence, but crazy false-knowledge about how native peoples all do drugs.

The whole debate is beneath serious scholarship, so don't be surprised if all the sources you can find on it look like they were made by a person on drugs at the time.


#19

I’m glad you were able to refute those links. I don’t think smoking anything is wise but thats just my opinion. I do know a lot of christians who smoke weed though. Their reason for it is that “clinical studies show that it has many health benifits and that there is nothing harmful about it”. I pretty much just laugh at that, because I have also done my fair share of research which proves the opposite to their claims. Sure, its not as dangerous as alcohol, cigarettes or hard-core drugs, but its still not healthy.


#20

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