Is God Teaching America Thru the TLC Channel (Duggars/John & Kate)?


#1

Do you think God might be teaching America a lesson via these two shows on “The Learning Channel”?

The Duggars practice procreation naturally and leave the decision up to God. They let God naturally space the children. The now have 20 and seem not to have many problems.

John & Kate choose in-vitro fertilization and had 6 kids all at once. Their method was making man-made decisions instead of letting God be the ultimate decider of procreating. This family does not have children naturally spaced and is having all kinds of problems.

What are your thoughts?


#2

Well, it’s an interesting (and in the case of John & Kate, sad) parallel… for certain.

I’m very impressed by the Duggars, and how they speak out… about their family, and that they are so in love with God… and their children.


#3

Unfortunately, unless someone pointed it out, I doubt the average American would draw that conclusion. Especially since the personalities of the parents Jon and Kate are what has been in the news lately.


#4

You know what’s amazing to me about the Duggars, the fact that they are so forthright and unapologetic about their faith and life choices. They don’t say we do it this way because it’s the best way or the only way, they don’t come off as pushy, yet they stand firm. They also never have a negative thing to say about anyone else, which I admire. I may not agree with them on everything, their child rearing practices etc.(which there are many unfounded rumors about) but I doubt that phases them:p and it shouldn’t.

I think if anything the lesson to learn form the Duggars would not be to go have 19 children, but that if you’re living a life based on faith, don’t be sorry and ashamed about it and don’t hide it. Too many Catholics acquiesce for the sake of ‘getting along’ or not being ‘judgmental’ of others. This is a false ecumenism and Truth has been greatly compromised.

I often wonder about the Sentman family that was featured on the Kids by the Dozen series. They were a great Catholic family of…16 or 17 I think? Great family.


#5

I think it’s comparing apples and oranges. And lots of people would have issues with the Duggars being portrayed as a perfect family. It’s nice they seem happy, but 20 years from now are there going to be 19 books by Duggar children complaining about how they grew up as a cog in the machine? I don’t see them as letting God space their children. You don’t deliberately wean an infant to bring back your fertility and then claim you’re leaving anything up to God. I focused on the needs of the babies I had and let them wean themselves when they were ready. Return to fertility lagged behind. I wasn’t always thinking of “the next baby” like I had a quota to fill. No way I could have cranked one out every year at that rate. I enjoyed each of them as much as I could. I never used birth control or IVF. Even so, God did not “reward” me with a wonderful marriage and family life. So what was the “lesson” being taught there? :frowning:

(Yeah, ducking as I wait for incoming.)

As for the other family, which is a tragic train wreck… their problems aren’t caused by IVF. I think it’s a symptom of the IVF mentality. These people lived as if God’s rules didn’t apply to them. Now we are seeing some of that mentality being played out in other areas of their lives. With horrible consequences.

The poor children are being treated as a commodity. Please take them off tv. Take them off the tabloids. Don’t play out the details of their daddy’s bad girlfriend choices in the public square.

The fact we even know about these families is wrong. They’ve put themselves out in the public eye deliberately. I think that is degrading and makes the kids all grow up like they’re on some twisted Truman Show.

None of it is normal.


#6

Liberanos the weaning to conceive thing was a rumor, just an FYI for anyone interested because I know that irked a lot of people.

After 18 Children, Breastfeeding for Michelle Duggar Continues to Be a Learning Experience

I would tend to agree that having these families, the kids mostly, on TV is probably not the best idea. For the Gosselin kids especially.


#7

I think you make a good point…

While I totally admire the Duggars for their example of faith - which is contrary to the “ways of the world”… I agree that it’s not normal and certainly don’t look at them as a perfect example.

In fact - I think that this image of “perfection” and “perfect control over the family” is quite contrary to our Faith. God doesn’t always make everything perfect. Sometimes following him is an ENORMOUS burden and is painful and ugly. I don’t know, the whole “perfect image” sometimes rubs me the wrong way… the huge house, 5 top-class washing machines, cool play rooms… heck - that sounds like a DREAM to me! I don’t remember seeing a lot of Saints grow up in those kinds of “conditions”. I don’t know - the whole “showered with blessings” theme is beautiful, but sometimes it isn’t so material… and the Duggars DO have a lot of beautiful material blessings to help out with their family. I’d be thrilled if one day my walls didn’t leak, my kitchen cabinets didn’t fall off, or my bathroom wasn’t a storage room… oh, and have 2 working parents and all that jazz. I just don’t see their sacrifices, kwim? I’m not judging at all… I totally HEAR them talk about their faith… it’s just a little hard to see past all their “blessings”. :blush:

And the John & Kate saga is just sad. :frowning:


#8

I have only seen both shows… maybe once.
I dont know so much about the IVF… as much as God being a center in the Duggars life vs. Kate and Jon. To me, from all the reports about Jon… he puts money and fame above God. If God was his center… he wouldnt have left his wife to be with girlfriend after girlfriend. He’s a husband and a father… thats the role God gave him…


#9

Someone correct me if I’m wrong but Jon and Kate I think took fertility medication…not IVF. Especially, someone as young as Kate, it isn’t “common” to try to implant 6. (It could be…maybe I’m wrong)

I recently started to watch the Duggars. They are on in the morning when DS2 like to nurse. Husband and wife seem so sweet and totally innocent in a way. Really innocent…there was an episode with them trying to get on and off a subway (I think DC?). It was actually really cute how even a subway seemed totally amazing. They don’t seem jaded by the world at all. It’s nice to see that, Mrs. D always seems so genuinely cheerful and patient.

Kate always seemed like she was close to snapping…very stressed.

Also, I understand that the Duggars don’t TTA or TTC they just go with the flow. She said that she normally finds out she is pg when the baby she is nursing gets fussy because of the change in the breast milk.

Just my opinion…(I haven’t watched either show too often)


#10

*I don’t really see the parallel…I see it more being about the overall way the two families handle the fame and money that came with their shows. The Duggars live a lifestyle and didn’t bend to the riches that have come to them. They adhere to principles that make them seem a bit less affected by money. The Gosselins seem more adversely affected by the money and fame, and I think that is the main difference I see.

I know Kate gets a lot of bad press, but I like her, and she seems to be trying to be a good mom for the kids. Jon seems to want to try to be a good dad, too. I just think that being on camera 24/7 changed them both, and the money that came with the overnight fame.

Just my $.02*


#11

You are correct Kate took medication that caused multiple eggs to be released. They did not do IVF.


#12

It’s an interesting thought but so far as drawing any lessons from it, I can only say that two data points do not make a trend.

Peace
James


#13

I haven’t watched either show since we haven’t had TV in my house for the last 6 or 7 years. From what I hear, Jon and Kate’s lives sound like nightmares. As for the Duggars, I thought I had heard before that they are purposely TRYING to have as many children as possible, that she weans her babies early, very early, so that she can become pregnant again. Is that not the case?


#14

Let’s let the Duggers speak for themselves.

**Here is their website. **

This is their FAQs Page. Some Good information here.

I haven’t looked at the site but figured the best way to learn is for anyone with questions to go to the source. :thumbsup:

Peace
James


#15

I don’t see that they state on their web site whether or not they are trying to have more, just that they saw that the pill was wrong.


#16

no , not the case. the weaning to conceive thing was a rumor. I think it was another family featured on the kids by the dozen series, maybe the Jeubs or Winter’s? I’m not sure, that weaned to concieve. Michelle talks about BFing and return to fertility in the above article I kinked.

After 18 Children, Breastfeeding for Michelle Duggar Continues to Be a Learning Experience


#17

It doesn’t seem to be the case…she seems to wean them after she finds out she is pregnant.


#18

I agree here. I haven’t watched eiher show more than a few times, but the whole idea that your life is open to everyone in the world that way is really strange to me. Doesn’t seem to be consistent with a Christian ideal of humility and living the ‘hidden life’. People like a head of state’s family being on TV is different because they are there after they get the job as president, prime minister, whatever. For these families theier job IS being on TV–and their minor children had absolutely no say in the decision to be thrust out there to the world.


#19

Well there may certainly be some truth in this. Though I think that the strength and faith of the parents may be able to mitigate much of this.
Think about people like Ron Howard, who grew up in fromt of the camera, but because their parents didn’t let it got o their head, they grew up just fine. Of course there are also examples of the opposite.
In this vein, I need only point to the commercials I have seen for another TV show called “Toddlers and Tierras”. Can anyone say “Child abuse”? how about, “Warped Childhood”. My guess is that your more likely to see a negaive book coming from these kids than you are from one of the Duggers.

As far as it being inconstant with a Christian Ideal, I don’t see it as being any more inconsistant than those on EWTN. They certainly put themselves out there.
While I don’t make a point of whatching the program, I’d certainly rather see a program such as this, with good solid values, than most of the other drivvle on TV.

Peace
James


#20

Thanks, that was a really interesting link. So, it does sound like the Duggars really are leaving it up to God (and managing pretty well!)


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