Is Islam a Peaceful Religion?


#1

Is Islam truly a peaceful religion?

Consider the following quotes taken directly from The Koran:

p. 2 of introduction (Islamic view of Jews & Christians) “The Koran accuses the Jews of corrupting the Scriptures and the Christians of worshipping Jesus as the son of God, although He had expressly commanded them to worship none but Him.”

Surah 5:51 (No friendship with Jews or Christians) “Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. God does not guide the wrongdoers.”

Surah 9:73 (Make war on unbelievers) “Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.”

Surah 9:5 (Slay the idolators/unbelievers) “When the sacred months are over slay the idolators wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush
everywhere for them.”

Surah 5:33-34 (Enemies should be slain or crucified) “Those that make war against God (Allah) and His apostle (Muhammad) and spread disorder in the land shall be slain or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land.”

Surah 47:3-6 (Behead the enemy) “This, because the unbelievers follow falsehood, while the faithful follow the truth from their Lord. Thus God lays down for mankind their rules of conduct. When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take a ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens. Thus shall you do. Had God willed, He could Himself have punished them; [but He has ordained it thus] that He may test you, the one by the other.”

Surah 4:99 (Special reward for aggressive martyrs) “He that leaves his home in the cause of God shall find many a refuge in the land and great abundance. He that leaves his dwelling to fight for God and His apostle and is then overtaken by death shall be recompensed by God. Surely God is forgiving and merciful.”

Surah 22:57 (Eternal punishment for unbelievers) “Those that have embraced the true Faith and done good works shall enter the gardens of delight; but the unbelievers who have denied Our revelations shall receive an ignominious punishment.”

(Source: The Koran, Translated by N. J. Dawood, Penquin Books, London, 1999)

http://www.garykah.org/html/koran2.jpg

**Any comments ??

Jesse Jr.**


#2

This topic should be in the non-Chrisitans forum. Yes, the quotes are taken directly form the Qu’ran and they are out of context, form when the Muslims believed they are being threatened with extinction form their enemies. The Catholic Answer “special report” tract provides a sufficient summary of these verses. Why replicate them here. Like your post, that tract neglects the many exhortations of Muslims to pursue peace and live lives of charity. Only a few are listed below.

Nice little picture of how different a Muslims can look in your post. Why not include one that shows how many Muslims dress as we do.

There are many passages in the Bible, particularly the Old Testament that tell God’s people to fight their enemies too.

The Qu’ran also has

[list]
*]“Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, and do not transgress; for Allah loveth not transgressors.” (Surah 2, Verse 190).
*]Do not kill women or children or non-combatants and do not kill old people or religious people,’’ and he mentioned priests, nuns and rabbis. And he said, “Do not cut down fruit-bearing trees and do not poison the wells of your enemies.”
*]“But if they cease (fighting you), Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Surah 2, Verse 192).
*]“But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for He is the One that Heareth and Knoweth (all things).” (Surah 8, Verse 61).
*]" … and let not the hatred of some people in (once) shutting you out of the Sacred Mosque lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not one another in sin and rancour: fear Allah: for Allah is strict in punishment." (Surah 5, Verse 2).
*]“Nor can Goodness and Evil be equal. Repel (Evil) with what is better: then will he between whom and thee was hatred become as it were thy friend and intimate!” (Surah 41, Verse 34).
*]“O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.” (Surah 4, Verse 135).
*]“God advocates justice, charity, and regarding the relatives. And He forbids evil, vice, and transgression. He enlightens you, that you may take heed.” (Surah 16, Verse 90).
*]“And if ye do punish them, punish them no worse than they punished you: but if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient.” (Surah 16, Verse 126).
*]Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things." (Surah 2, Verse 256).
*]“If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.” (Surah 9, Verse 6).
*]And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive, (Saying), We feed you for the sake of Allah alone: no reward do we desire from you, nor thanks." (Surah 76, Verses 8-9).
[/list]


#3

[quote=serendipity]“This topic should be in the non-Chrisitans forum. Yes, the quotes are taken directly form the Qu’ran and they are out of context, form when the Muslims believed they are being threatened with extinction form their enemies.”

And who were we threatening with extinction before 9/11?

“There are many passages in the Bible, particularly the Old Testament that tell God’s people to fight their enemies too.”

The New Testament is replete with our Savior’s call to peace and love. The New Testament replaced an eye for an eye. But it doesn’t require us to neglect defending our homes or families. It also certainly does not instruct us to brutally behead or crucify or cut off hands and feet or some other horrible mutilation.
Don’t be so disingenuous. Islam is not a religion of peace and love unless you are male and agree with Islam. To pretend otherwise is a sham. Witness the attempted murder of an author in England, the brutal public murder in the Netherlands, the 9/11 indiscrimnate slaughter of thousands of non-threatening innocents and the regular suicide bombings and beheadings going on now.

To say Islam is a peaceful religion is belied by the actions of its adherents around the world. Even in Indonesia relief efforts by US and Israeli people (even Catholic Relief Services) have been hampered or refused simply because of religious beliefs. Moreover the wealthy islamic nations have done little or nothing in this or any other crisis. If they were seriously peaceful and loving and charitable, the fabulously wealthy leaders of so many middle east nations would be helping their own abjectly impoverished and mostly uneducated peoples.
No. The proof certainly looks to be in the pudding. Christianity is definitely not located in the same gutter.
Newman60
[/quote]


#4

Serendipity.

No one wants war but to sit around and conjugate peace when war is imminent is simple foolishness....

Osee 4:6 My people have been silent, because they had no knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will reject thee

Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "Because you have rejected knowledge, I also reject you

Is it not more prudent to prepare than to sit and wait?

Proverbs 28:26 He that trusteth in his own heart, is a fool: but he that walketh wisely, he shall be saved.

Better to prepare than to foolishly await,
Jesse Jr.


#5

Many people believe that US polcies are threatening them with extinction, and it is easy to see why as the US supports tyrranical regimes who have little interest in the welfare of the majority of the populations, but are interested in receiving weapons from the US to maintain their power and food subsidies so that they can feed those most obedient to them. For many people living in Islamic countries access to primary education, health services and gurantee of food comes from Islamic religious institutions.

Islam is not a monolithical structure just as Christianity is not. There are Christian fiaths that forbif women form wearing makeup, cutting their hair, attending relgious services without the permission of a male relatives, and confine acceptable clothing for women to long skirts. This is not Christianity as a whole.

Similarly, in the US there seems to be a tendency to equate Islam solely with the interpretations of the Wahhabis and other fundamentalist sects. The role of women accorded by Islamic beliefs differs according to the interpretation of the school of Islamic law from which it came. To cure one self of a myopic view of Islam, try reading somethins written by an objective scholar who does not have an objective of demonizing a way of life in order to defend his own, like Islam: The Straight Path, by John Esposito (the best intro book to Islam), Imans and Emirs by Fuad Khuri (one of the few books that explain all the derivatives of the Islamic faith), or anything by Fatima Mernissi (The Veil and Male Elite, Forgotten Queens of Islam, Dreams of Trespass, Beyond the Veil, or Scheherazade Goes West).


#6

[quote=serendipity]Many people believe that US polcies are threatening them with extinction, and it is easy to see why as the US supports tyrranical regimes who have little interest in the welfare of the majority of the populations, but are interested in receiving weapons from the US to maintain their power and food subsidies so that they can feed those most obedient to them. For many people living in Islamic countries access to primary education, health services and gurantee of food comes from Islamic religious institutions.

Islam is not a monolithical structure just as Christianity is not. There are Christian fiaths that forbif women form wearing makeup, cutting their hair, attending relgious services without the permission of a male relatives, and confine acceptable clothing for women to long skirts. This is not Christianity as a whole.

Similarly, in the US there seems to be a tendency to equate Islam solely with the interpretations of the Wahhabis and other fundamentalist sects. The role of women accorded by Islamic beliefs differs according to the interpretation of the school of Islamic law from which it came. To cure one self of a myopic view of Islam, try reading somethins written by an objective scholar who does not have an objective of demonizing a way of life in order to defend his own, like Islam: The Straight Path, by John Esposito (the best intro book to Islam), Imans and Emirs by Fuad Khuri (one of the few books that explain all the derivatives of the Islamic faith), or anything by Fatima Mernissi (The Veil and Male Elite, Forgotten Queens of Islam, Dreams of Trespass, Beyond the Veil, or Scheherazade Goes West).
[/quote]

Serendipity, I don’t see how you have really answered my question. Are you saying that we are responsible for the impoverished and uneducated peoples of the Islamic nations around the world?
Our aid certainly doesn’t get where it ought to but I can’t equate that to being the cause of the problem. Just as I don’t see hate for moslems or any other infidels being taught here as opposed to the promises to suicide bombers. I didn’t see Americans or Israelis jumping around and celebrating wildly after the Earthquake and Tsunami struck Indonesia as so many Muslims did after 9/11. No we not only tried to help but we actually did and are still doing. Where are the rich and charitable Muslims?
That is why I said the proof is in the pudding.
Newman60


#7

I refuse to answer this. I don’t want to be on their list. :bigyikes:


#8

[quote=RPC717]I refuse to answer this. I don’t want to be on their list. :bigyikes:
[/quote]

Good point. It’s already too late for me.

Newman60


#9

The Search for Moderate Islam: Part I

The Search for Moderate Islam: Part II

[The Search for Moderate Islam:] A Reply to Lawrence Auster

Serendipity, if you haven’t already done so, please read these articles, the links to which were originally posted by gilliam. They are rather lengthy, but are in-depth and well thought out. They are well worth the time and may cause you to re-think your position.


#10

Thank you for implying that my opinion is not well thought out. I have studied much about Islam (particularly its impact on social devlopment and politics) in great depth academically and through my career. I have lived and worked with Islamic communities through out the world. The charity that the typical Muslim exemplifies in his and her life style, and the attempt to sincerely discern how best to submit to God’s will inspired me greatly and for a long time made me question the validity of the Christian faith (but only as articulated in Catholicism).

The struggle made me stonger in my faith and reafffirmed the beliefs to which I was born. But because I am strong in my faith, I don’t see any reason to present a false representation of other faiths to validate my own. I recognize the good in others, and the Pope, but believe mine is better becuase it is more complete.

Just because a person calls himself a Muslim does not mean that he is an accurate representation of the Islamic faith. Hypocrites exist in every religion. I know some horrible people who attend the church here, and would be hesistant to say that they represent the ideal Christian. Personally, I think that the aibility to remain incredibly wealthy, while others are destitute and homeless, is an indication of an unwillingness for any person to apply to principles of charity in their life, and shows great disregard for God in thier life.

There are Muslim philanthropists and charity organizations, just as there are Christian entities. Do a google search. I don’t see the point in listing such lists and names here, and am astounded that people believe they do not exist. I also apologize because I feel that I am hijacking this thread, and will not post anything else on the topic. The services that the poor receive in most Middle Eastern countries are a consequence of the donations that individuals make to the poor.

The book Affluence and Poverty in the Middle East by El-Gohnemy demonstrates how there are more poor people in on-oil countries, but those who are poor suffer the most in the oil rich, because the people there do less to provide for the poor. Much criticism has been written by Muslims about the lack of charity of the oil rich as contradictory to Islamic teaching.

More impressive to me than the rich who give, has been the practice of giving that most Muslims incorporate in their lives. However every family, gives food to those poorer, during Eid celebrations in particular, even though they barely have enough to survive.

In terms of we as Americans can not determine where the moeny goes, this is not true. Aid is not distrubuted in terms of only cash. Very little of it is actually free for all money. Large amounts are given to countries in the form of physical weapons and in terms of contracts, as credits towards services in American industries. We can lobby and use our votes and change this if we have the inclinations. Or at least we can try. I don’t know how much our efforts would impact corporations that spend billions of dollars on public relations initiatives and campaign contributions, but we should at least try.


#11

The statement than an essay is well thought out means just that, not that another opinion isn’t. Being a little thin-skinned, aren’t we?


#12

Well, according to the documents of Vatican II, we are to love them and only look for their good, as the Council fathers stated that the worship Mary and believe in God…and that is good enough for them, and dont dare try to convert them or you may be sued like was reported today in Zenit as the Jews are now going to sue the Vatican as they are saying that Catholics in WWII baptised Jewish children, you know, to maybe save thier lives from the Nazis, and unless we turn over all of the names so they can become Jewish again, the Jewish lawyers will be let loose on the Vatican…talk about thanks!!!.

SERVANT OF THE SERVANTS OF GOD TOGETHER WITH THE FATHERS OF THE SACRED FOR EVERLASTING MEMORY [NOSTRA AETATE] DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore theone God, living and subsisting in Himself, merciful and all-powerful,the Creator of heaven and earth (5), who has spoken to men; they takepains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just asAbraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes great pleasure in linkingitself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus asGod, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virginmother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition,they await the day of judgement when God will render their deserts toall those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they valuethe moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgivingand fasting. Since in the course of centuries not a few quarrels and hostilitieshave arisen between Christians and Moslems, this Sacred Synod urgesall to forget the past and to work sincerely for mutual understandingand to preserve as well as to promote together for the benefit of allmankind social justice and moral welfare, as well as peace andfreedom.

[quote=JesseJr]Is Islam truly a peaceful religion?

Consider the following quotes taken directly from The Koran:

p. 2 of introduction (Islamic view of Jews & Christians) “The Koran accuses the Jews of corrupting the Scriptures and the Christians of worshipping Jesus as the son of God, although He had expressly commanded them to worship none but Him.”

Surah 5:51 (No friendship with Jews or Christians) “Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. God does not guide the wrongdoers.”

Surah 9:73 (Make war on unbelievers) “Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.”

Surah 9:5 (Slay the idolators/unbelievers) “When the sacred months are over slay the idolators wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush
everywhere for them.”

Surah 5:33-34 (Enemies should be slain or crucified) “Those that make war against God (Allah) and His apostle (Muhammad) and spread disorder in the land shall be slain or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land.”

Surah 47:3-6 (Behead the enemy) “This, because the unbelievers follow falsehood, while the faithful follow the truth from their Lord. Thus God lays down for mankind their rules of conduct. When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Then grant them their freedom or take a ransom from them, until War shall lay down her burdens. Thus shall you do. Had God willed, He could Himself have punished them; [but He has ordained it thus] that He may test you, the one by the other.”

Surah 4:99 (Special reward for aggressive martyrs) “He that leaves his home in the cause of God shall find many a refuge in the land and great abundance. He that leaves his dwelling to fight for God and His apostle and is then overtaken by death shall be recompensed by God. Surely God is forgiving and merciful.”

(Source: The Koran, Translated by N. J. Dawood, Penquin Books, London, 1999)

http://www.garykah.org/html/koran2.jpg

Any comments ??

Jesse Jr.
[/quote]


#13

islamonline.net/askaboutislam/browse.asp


#14

You can’t lump everyone together like that and say they’re all wrong- it’s like saying the grand white dragon of the KKK speaks for all of Christendom. I have lots of Muslim friends, they are easier to speak to about God than my Baptist friends who are all convinced I’m going to hell for being a Catholic!


#15

Fat,

You are right. I have good Muslim friends from Iran, John and Eva who I met while I was fishing this summer in the Drammen Fjord.

There are a lot of good Muslim folks. This post was only meant to alert people of the thinking behind the Islamic Radicalists. I can see it was taken as a group condemnation and I am sorry for that. We can not condemn any one group of people because there are good and bad in every collection of individuals, whether it be priests, truckdrivers....or any other  group.

But one does need to be aware of the principles behind terrorist thinking. All the Prophecies do say they will be attacking in the near future and drive forces all the way back to Westphalia......as you already saw on the Prophecy website I sent you. Anne Catherine Emmerich's prophecies.

Perhaps you have to be a registered Yahoo group member before you can access the website?

Jesse Jr.


#16

Is Islam truly a peaceful religion?

On paper Islam is peaceful, But,

In practical terms, the people who represent

Islam are among the Most Viscious and Murderous

People on Earth. What kind of people would pay famlies

**to send their kids out to be suicide bombers? :mad: **


Just reciently, we have seen that the rich Muslim nations


did not help the Tsunami victims. In fact they sent soldiers


to harrass the relief workers. Those people do not care to


**help their own kind!:mad: **


#17

Religion does not create terror, People create terror.
Christians have brutal groups as well. The OT is littered with scripture that taken out of contaxt can be just as violent as the Quran.
Its not the religion its the people and culture.


#18

Has any of you heard about the Coptic Orthodox family of 4 in New Jersey which was murdered about a month ago by what is suspected to be a group of muslims which the father of the family used to debate with over the internet? It is a very sad story, and was on the news for a while. One of the daughters was not only stabbed in the chest and had her throat slit, yet also was stabbed in the wrist where she had a small tattoo of a cross.

I know someone who used to be a muslim, and has since converted to Christianity. As an Egyptain, he says that reading the Koran in Arabic is different than reading the English translation. He said the translation is not as violent and hatefilled. Other than that, I do not know much about Islam.

God Bless,
Elizabeth


#19

The Old Testament makes the prophecy that the children of Hagar and Abraham will ever be warlike, with all men’s hands against them. Islam is just the modus operandi.


#20

[quote=Exporter]Is Islam truly a peaceful religion?

On paper Islam is peaceful, But,

In practical terms, the people who represent

Islam are among the Most Viscious and Murderous

People on Earth. What kind of people would pay famlies

**to send their kids out to be suicide bombers? :mad: **

Just reciently, we have seen that the rich Muslim nations

did not help the Tsunami victims. In fact they sent soldiers

to harrass the relief workers. Those people do not care to

**help their own kind!:mad: **
[/quote]

I need to correct a few errors in the above statements.

  1. It is not true to state that the Arab nations did not help the Tsunami victims. They have contributed to the world wide relief efforts. It is probable that these contributions have not been well publicized in certain circles.

  2. The Arab nations did not send soldiers to harrass the relief workers. In Banda Aceh, the area that has been hit the hardest by the earthquake and Tsunami there has been an insurgency between rebel Muslims and the Indonesian army. The Indonesian army is there to help the relief workers and not to hinder them. The hard line Muslims appear to have backed off in recent weeks. They were claiming that they could handle the situation but the work required is beyond their capacity. The insurgents would see this as an opportunity to get a stronger presence in the area, but the army has been keeping them under control.

There are Muslims in the Indonesian army and not all Muslims in that country are bad eggs. There are many who are moderate and who just want to live ordinary lives.

I will always remember the sacrifice that one young Muslim man made in order to save the lives of many Christians. It happened one Christmas eve when there had been a bomb threat. The President of Indonesia at the time provided protection for the Christians in the form of the Muslim Youth. They patrolled around the Christian Churches as a form of protection. A suspicious package was found, and this young man took that package away from the Church and in doing this he gave his life when the bomb went off. He is the true Muslim martyr because he gave his life in order to save the lives of others.

Maggie


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