Is Islam really monotheistic?


#1

Islam elevates Muhammed to near divine status. 5 times a day they pray towards the Kaaba with its holy rock. They walk around it when on pilgrimage there. The Quran is regarded as divine and treated accordingly. To me it appears they have many gods.


#2

[quote=cestusdei]Islam elevates Muhammed to near divine status. 5 times a day they pray towards the Kaaba with its holy rock. They walk around it when on pilgrimage there. The Quran is regarded as divine and treated accordingly. To me it appears they have many gods.
[/quote]

Oy vey.:smiley:


#3

Its the same as saying Catholics aren’t Christians.


#4

No, it is a valid question. It does resemble the kinds of questions Muslims ask us. So why do you complain? Why not grapple with it?


#5

It’s not because an answer has already been given unless you are looking for your own answer.


#6

Uh, that’s not an answer. I can only assume you don’t have one.


#7

Islam is monesthetic.


#8

You say it is. But Muhammed, the rock, and the quran all seem to have some divine status. Maybe you should consider whether or not there is some truth in that claim.


#9

cestusdei,

Your really shooting for a pie in the sky with this thread. And other than this response, I do not plan on replying, because this is purely a joke.

Islaam, and even you know this, is as a pure of a monotheistic belief that one can find. Period.

To suggest otherwise shows nothing except ignorance.

Peace.

Jonathan


#10

Does the sun still set in murky waters?

One thing I found funny a while back, there is an interesting little goober who credits the pope of the 7th century with “creating” Islam, all through the influence of his Roman Catholic wife (wife #1). That Jack Chick, what will he think of next?

BTW, you may be right that Islam “is as a pure of a monotheistic belief that one can find”. But what matters is not the purest monotheism. I could have the purest monotheism worshiping the Sun God Ra and it wouldn’t make a lick of difference. On the one hand we have the Christian bible written within a generation of Christ’s death, with each Gospel/Epistle quoted by the first generation of Christian whose writing survive to this day, testified to by the blood of hundreds of thousands of martyrs who witnessed the miracles of the original Apostles/disciples (who weren’t tempted into martyrdom with promises of fornication) and whose historicity is confirmed by secular (and hostile) primary source material.

On the other hand we have a book that says the Christian Bible is all wrong, Christianity was invented by Paul, re-wrote the entire history of Christ and his sacrifice…

Occam’s razor demands the simplest explanation be the correct one.

Material/witnesses closest to his lifetime confirming and reaffirming the testimony about Christ’s life, death and resurrection?

Or a book coming 600 years later, supposedly revealed in a cave (or on a mountain), corroborated by no one, conforming to zero historical (and secular) historical artifacts/documents/testimonies etc…

As a Christian (a lousy, unworthy one at that), I know where I cast my vote.


#11

Muslims routinely accuse us of tritheism or of making Mary a goddess. I just wondered how they would handle similiar observations. I guess they can’t.


#12

There were 360 idols around the Kaba. The pilgrimages to the Kaba were all pagan pilgrimages, the ritual processions around the Kaba were part of pagan beliefs and custom, the white robes worn by the pilgrims were from pagan faiths, the veneration of the Kaba and black stone are derived from pagan rituals and beliefs. Pagans called out the names of their pagan gods as they circled the Kaba, today, Muslims call out Allah’s name. Pagans ran between the nearby hills, Muhammad authorized Muslims to do that in the Quran, and probably ran between the hills himself.
The chief pagan god worshipped there was Hubal, who could be called the god of Mecca and of the Kaba. Hubal is not mentioned in the Quran. The goddesses al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat were also worshipped there and are mentioned in the Quran.
It is thought that the Kaba was originally set up for astral worship. Golden suns and moons are repeatedly mentioned as the votive gifts. Some pagans regarded the Kaba as a temple devoted to the sun, moon, and 5 planets.

5 times a day prayer = from Sabeans (worshipping the star)
Fasting during ramadhan = from Sabeans
Eid = from Sabean
Muhammad also incorporated the pagan veneration of the Kaba and black stone into Islam.
Houris = from Zoroastrian (refer to Faries - spirit in bright array and beautiful to captives the heart of the man)


#13

[quote=Cyber Knight]5 times a day prayer = from Sabeans (worshipping the star)
Fasting during ramadhan = from Sabeans
Eid = from Sabean
Muhammad also incorporated the pagan veneration of the Kaba and black stone into Islam.
Houris = from Zoroastrian (refer to Faries - spirit in bright array and beautiful to captives the heart of the man)
[/quote]

Dear Cyber Knight:

From your posts it is clear that you are a prime example of one who believes in anything and everything that he hears against his/her enemy, without any hesitation and verification.

Islam is in existence since first Prophet of God, Adam (PBUH) came into this world.

All Prophets of God from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to Jesus (Eisa) and to Muhammed (PBUT) were Muslims.

Muslims means they all had surrendered their will to the Will of God. And all those who followed them as their respective Prophets preached and wanted from them, were too Muslims.

But whenever Prophets of God left this world, not all of their followers kept Teachings/Revelations of God in pure form and they started creating/ommiting/adding new things from their own. Many eventually indulged in worshipping many gods. Arabia was no exception. Thus once Arabia which was purely monotheistic in the days of Prophet Ishmael (PBUH), centuries after him turned into a pagan Arabia.

When Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was choosen as the Last Prophet of God, his job was not only to put all those pagans of Arabia again on the right track of God, left by Prophet Ishmael and Abraham (PBUT) but to give the Final and Last Message of God’s recommended Way of Life (Addeen) to the whole mankind because all previous Prophets’ mission was meant for their respective nations. Such as Prophet Eisa’s (Jesus’) mission was only for Children of Israel (bani Israa’il).

As such, it make **no sense ** to call Islam a pagan religion or borrowed from previous faith/rituals but it has to be seen/judgend in right perspective that Islam stands for from the day one of this world (from Prophet Adam-PBUH).

One of articles of Islam’s faith is:

“Amantu billahi wa mala’ikatihi, wa kutubihi, wa rusulihi, wal yawmil akhiri, wal qadri khairihi wa sharrihi minallahi ta’ala, wal ba’thi ba’dal mawt.”

(I believe in Allah, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Last Day [Day of Judgement] and in the fact that everything good or bad is decided by Allah the Almighty, and in the life-after-death.)

For details: usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/pillars/intropillars.html
witness-pioneer.org
For misconceptions:
witness-pioneer.org/Dawah/misconception/book2.pdf


#14

[quote=freedomm]One of articles of Islam’s faith is:

“Amantu billahi wa mala’ikatihi, wa kutubihi, wa rusulihi, wal yawmil akhiri, wal qadri khairihi wa sharrihi minallahi ta’ala, wal ba’thi ba’dal mawt.”

(I believe in Allah, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Last Day [Day of Judgement] and in the fact that everything good or bad is decided by Allah the Almighty, and in the life-after-death.)[/INDENT]

Ever listen to the Christian Creed freedomm - 'I believe in ONE God … ’ you didn’t believe us when we tried to tell you this plainly, why on earth we should believe anything you say I have no idea.
[/quote]


#15

[quote=freedomm]Dear Cyber Knight:

From your posts it is clear that you are a prime example of one who believes in anything and everything that he hears against his/her enemy, without any hesitation and verification.

Islam is in existence since first Prophet of God, Adam (PBUH) came into this world.

All Prophets of God from Adam to Noah to Abraham to Moses to Jesus (Eisa) and to Muhammed (PBUT) were Muslims.

Muslims means they all had surrendered their will to the Will of God. And all those who followed them as their respective Prophets preached and wanted from them, were too Muslims.

But whenever Prophets of God left this world, not all of their followers kept Teachings/Revelations of God in pure form and they started creating/ommiting/adding new things from their own. Many eventually indulged in worshipping many gods. Arabia was no exception. Thus once Arabia which was purely monotheistic in the days of Prophet Ishmael (PBUH), centuries after him turned into a pagan Arabia.

When Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) was choosen as the Last Prophet of God, his job was not only to put all those pagans of Arabia again on the right track of God, left by Prophet Ishmael and Abraham (PBUT) but to give the Final and Last Message of God’s recommended Way of Life (Addeen) to the whole mankind because all previous Prophets’ mission was meant for their respective nations. Such as Prophet Eisa’s (Jesus’) mission was only for Children of Israel (bani Israa’il).

As such, it make **no sense ** to call Islam a pagan religion or borrowed from previous faith/rituals but it has to be seen/judgend in right perspective that Islam stands for from the day one of this world (from Prophet Adam-PBUH).

One of articles of Islam’s faith is:

“Amantu billahi wa mala’ikatihi, wa kutubihi, wa rusulihi, wal yawmil akhiri, wal qadri khairihi wa sharrihi minallahi ta’ala, wal ba’thi ba’dal mawt.”

(I believe in Allah, in His Angels, in His Books, in His Messengers, in the Last Day [Day of Judgement] and in the fact that everything good or bad is decided by Allah the Almighty, and in the life-after-death.)

For details: usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/pillars/intropillars.html
witness-pioneer.org
For misconceptions:
witness-pioneer.org/Dawah/misconception/book2.pdf
[/quote]

Your excuses do not explain and refute anything I say.


#16

[quote=LilyM] Ever listen to the Christian Creed freedomm - 'I believe in ONE God … ’ you didn’t believe us when we tried to tell you this plainly, why on earth we should believe anything you say I have no idea.
[/quote]

Dear LilyM:

But the ONE God you believe is not really ONE as Islam says. Your ONE God is not even ONE God of most orthodox Jews. Your ONE God is one of the Three (Trinity). Jewish God is not a man:
Qoute:
[INDENT]Judaism emphatically rejects any concept of plurality with respect to God. It therefore rejects the Christian concept of the trinity, in which God is depicted as three persons in one, corresponding to His manifestation in creation, redemption and revelation.
aish.com/literacy/concepts/Understanding_God.asp ]

Your ONE God is rooted in the development of the Nicene creed which began in 325 a.d. at the Council of Nicea. The Council was arranged by Emperor Constantine to get some unity of faith in the Christian Church by having a standardized creed. This did not work out as planned. The Creed was formally adopted at the Council of Chalcedon in 451 a.d.

Not to mention what Athanasian Creed. The following is the Marquess of Bute’s English translation of the text of the Creed (partial):

The Father Incomprehensible, the Son Incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost Incomprehensible. The Father Eternal, the Son Eternal, and the Holy Ghost Etneral and yet they are not Three Eternals but One Eternal. As also there are not Three Uncreated, nor Three Incomprehensibles, but One Uncreated, and One Uncomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not Three Almighties but One Almighty.

“For the past two hundred years the authorship of this summary of Catholic Faith and the time of its appearance have furnished an interesting problem to ecclesiastical antiquarians”
----Catholic Encyclopedia
newadvent.org/cathen/02033b.htm ]

Now tell me howcome Son of God and Holy Ghost are Almighty too? What kind of a ONE God do you really believe?

And not to mention what God of the Catholic Bible will do “On that Day” with a Hired Razor with his own people to inflict His disgrace and sufferings on His own people. The below is from verse and it’s sidenote is from your Catholic Bible:

Isaiah 7:20
The New American Bible20 9 **On that day the LORD shall shave with the razor hired from across the River (with the king of Assyria) the head, and the hair between the legs. It shall also shave off the beard. **
usccb.org/nab/bible/isaiah/isaiah7.htm ]

9:[20] God will use the Assyrians from across the River (the Euphrates) as his instrument (razor) to inflict disgrace and suffering upon his people

usccb.org/nab/bible/isaiah/isaiah7.htm#foot9 ][/INDENT]


#17

You know Justice, your post is getting rediculous and nothing new and nothing change. Christian bashing I may call but thats ok… being tu quoque is the best muslims could do in defending their faith or else… they have no words… Like I said, explain me about this :

There were 360 idols around the Kaba. The pilgrimages to the Kaba were all pagan pilgrimages, the ritual processions around the Kaba were part of pagan beliefs and custom, the white robes worn by the pilgrims were from pagan faiths, the veneration of the Kaba and black stone are derived from pagan rituals and beliefs. Pagans called out the names of their pagan gods as they circled the Kaba, today, Muslims call out Allah’s name. Pagans ran between the nearby hills, Muhammad authorized Muslims to do that in the Quran, and probably ran between the hills himself.
The chief pagan god worshipped there was Hubal, who could be called the god of Mecca and of the Kaba. Hubal is not mentioned in the Quran. The goddesses al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat were also worshipped there and are mentioned in the Quran.
It is thought that the Kaba was originally set up for astral worship. Golden suns and moons are repeatedly mentioned as the votive gifts. Some pagans regarded the Kaba as a temple devoted to the sun, moon, and 5 planets.

And tell me how hajj pilgrimage copy the pagan ritual? whats the meaning of star and crescent moon in Islam, Why did Muhammad cast satanic verses for the meccan pagan? :stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

PS: I beg you please not quoting bible verses… (or open new thread) I want to hear it from your point of view. Do not let anyone down of your defending Islam’s performance here. You have been laughed by most of us here for not keep on the track. :cool:


#18

[quote=cestusdei]Islam elevates Muhammed to near divine status. 5 times a day they pray towards the Kaaba with its holy rock. They walk around it when on pilgrimage there. The Quran is regarded as divine and treated accordingly. To me it appears they have many gods.
[/quote]

I’m still not too sure. In its defintion of worship, Islam’s standard is indeed very strict. It considers our veneration of Mary as worship. If this same standard is applied to its own practices, I see no difference why we cannot say it gives some kinds of divinity and worship to the Kaaba and the Quran.


#19

[quote=Reuben J]I’m still not too sure. In its defintion of worship, Islam’s standard is indeed very strict. It considers our veneration of Mary as worship. If this same standard is applied to its own practices, I see no difference why we cannot say it gives some kinds of divinity and worship to the Kaaba and the Quran.
[/quote]

Dear Reuben J:

No Muslim in his right mind will ever worship to the Ka’abah or the Holy Quran. It is against the Law of the very teachings of the Holy Quran and Prophet Muhammed (PBUH), to worship anything besides ALLAH who is THE CREATOR of ALL.

By the way not every Muslim is required to go to the Ka’abah except those who have means to go there and can leave enough money behind to his family while he is out for Hajj or 'Umrah.

Then the whole purpose of the Holy Quran is to recite and apply it’s Divine Message/Law in daily life and not to decore the Holy Quran and keep in a shelf. Without the application of it’s contents, the Islamic Way of Life (Addeen) cannot be acheived. So there is no question at all to worship the Book.

Surah 17: Verse 9

**Verily this Qur’an doth guide to that which is most right (or stable), and giveth the Glad Tidings to the Believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a magnificent reward; **

. . . . .


#20

[quote=cestusdei]Islam elevates Muhammed to near divine status. 5 times a day they pray towards the Kaaba with its holy rock. They walk around it when on pilgrimage there. The Quran is regarded as divine and treated accordingly. To me it appears they have many gods.
[/quote]

Our shrines and Holy places are visited by millions a year. The Bible is considered divine. We have millions of pilgrmiges to places including the Vatican. If that is constituting multiple gods then what is thatv saying about Christianity?


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