Is it a sin to be quiet and reflective in mass...then leave?


#1

Is it a sin to just go to, confession, if that day, participate in the before mass rosary,the mass, and then just to leave after mass?

is it ok to not participate with others in the social , being polite of course, but to just leave following mass?


#2

You don’t have to stay for socialization after Mass, that is not required, although it is a good way to get to know your brothers and sisters in Christ. There is a communal aspect to our faith that can’t be completely undermined or disregarded.

I just want to mention one more thing, because the thread title and post and a little disjunctive. If by “quiet and reflective” at Mass, you mean you are not paying attention to the readings/homily, not participating in the responses, and not joining in the hymns (if any) and are just in personal prayer the whole time, then I don’t know if I would say that you were attending or participating at Mass. I would be more inclined to say that you were in a room where Mass happened to be celebrated at the same time.


#3

[quote="LoveMercyGrace, post:1, topic:332921"]
Is it a sin to just go to, confession, if that day, participate in the before mass rosary,the mass, and then just to leave after mass?

is it ok to not participate with others in the social , being polite of course, but to just leave following mass?

[/quote]

Not a sin. May I ask why you think it would be? Just curious, because I have never heard this asked before.


#4

I'm sorry, but this sounds like a trick question, like the kind a twelve-year-old asks to validate their actions but what they ask isn't even remotely close to what they actually did. (ex. "Is there really anything wrong with wanting to go to a concert?" When what they actually did was sneak into a bar to see a band with a fake ID.) What makes you think there is something wrong with leaving directly after Mass? Did you wait for the benediction? Did you let the priest and the procession leave before you exited? Did you knock two elderly ladies over on the way to your car? Did you scream profanities at anyone who managed to leave the parking lot before you? I don't get the question.


#5

[quote="CB_Catholic, post:3, topic:332921"]
Not a sin. May I ask why you think it would be? Just curious, because I have never heard this asked before.

[/quote]

I just want to be sure. I understand the communal benefits and I believe also it is healthy

and beneficial to be around others of faith, and especially following mass. Lately however

I am disturbed about some things happening there and I am praying about it.

actually, I am not sure what to do or not do. Well I know, Pope Frances recently said

we are there not for priest laymen or the people, we are there for Christ.

So I will keep praying, and for now I want to be able to just go to Mass and leave.

and I wanted to know if it is a venial sin perhaps for me to do so.

thank you

blessings


#6

It is not a sin at all. We don’t have to socialize after Mass. However, there could be a problem with forgiveness of others, or judging others. Harboring resentments might be a problem. Only you would really know. Pray about it. Maybe some time apart after Mass can be a good thing. God Bless you.


#7

[quote="LoveMercyGrace, post:5, topic:332921"]
I just want to be sure. I understand the communal benefits and I believe also it is healthy

and beneficial to be around others of faith, and especially following mass. Lately however

I am disturbed about some things happening there and I am praying about it.

actually, I am not sure what to do or not do. Well I know, Pope Frances recently said

we are there not for priest laymen or the people, we are there for Christ.

So I will keep praying, and for now I want to be able to just go to Mass and leave.

and I wanted to know if it is a venial sin perhaps for me to do so.

thank you

blessings

[/quote]

It's not a sin at all. If you don't want to stay, don't stay:thumbsup:

Nothing wrong at all with being silent and reflective during Mass.:thumbsup:

At least you go to Mass itself which is something, apparently that a majority of Catholics seldom if ever do according to statistics. Many Parishes report average attendance on Sundays equals between 25 and 45% of the Parishners actually attend Mass. I have actually called various Parishes and asked, so I am pretty sure its true.

Now I know that many people here claim that at their Parish you have hundreds if not thousands of people at each and every Mass, but I have to take that with a grain of salt.:rolleyes:


#8

[quote="Allegra, post:4, topic:332921"]
I'm sorry, but this sounds like a trick question, like the kind a twelve-year-old asks to validate their actions but what they ask isn't even remotely close to what they actually did. (ex. "Is there really anything wrong with wanting to go to a concert?" When what they actually did was sneak into a bar to see a band with a fake ID.) What makes you think there is something wrong with leaving directly after Mass? Did you wait for the benediction? Did you let the priest and the procession leave before you exited? Did you knock two elderly ladies over on the way to your car? Did you scream profanities at anyone who managed to leave the parking lot before you? I don't get the question.

[/quote]

ok. my question does sound childish but I feel childish in a church full of cradle Catholics
and I have been back five months. and things are going on that do not feel right to me.
but as I am sort of newly returned, I have little experience to compare with.
going elsewhere is not that easy. but just to be certain, I asked if that is a sin of sorts to just leave. I am being prepared because I have been told many things there.
sometimes I think- and I will just say this- there is this rudeness some people have
this "if I put that person down, I will feel miserably better about myself" kind of thing.

Lord have mercy on us and thank you for sending Pope Frances.


#9

[quote="Cathryn, post:6, topic:332921"]
It is not a sin at all. We don't have to socialize after Mass. However, there could be a problem with forgiveness of others, or judging others. Harboring resentments might be a problem. Only you would really know. Pray about it. Maybe some time apart after Mass can be a good thing. God Bless you.

[/quote]

yes, thank you. kind of thinking that...some time apart. :)


#10

[quote="Mike30, post:7, topic:332921"]
It's not a sin at all. If you don't want to stay, don't stay:thumbsup:

Nothing wrong at all with being silent and reflective during Mass.:thumbsup:

At least you go to Mass itself which is something, apparently that a majority of Catholics seldom if ever do according to statistics. Many Parishes report average attendance on Sundays equals between 25 and 45% of the Parishners actually attend Mass. I have actually called various Parishes and asked, so I am pretty sure its true.

Now I know that many people here claim that at their Parish you have hundreds if not thousands of people at each and every Mass, but I have to take that with a grain of salt.:rolleyes:

[/quote]

thank you Mike. in summer there are more seasonal people, then in the winter, the snow:eek: scares many away. I love to go to mass everyday. most days I can, because there is no better way to begin the day than with Jesus and worship~


#11

'"LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF" Jesus Christ lived his life interacting with all ages and types of people, loving them, forgiving them, accepting them, you should do likewise. What so ever you do to the least of your brothers that you do unto me. Live your life as a Christian by loving all.............God bless you..............


#12

I also had the same experience in the after mass social time. I love the mass, I love the prayer and I love communion. I do not like how immediately after mass the conversation turns to gossip, or business, or sports or meaningless small talk. I never stick around after any sort of spiritual gathering unless the after conversation is about God or something spiritually related to that. That is the reason I attend any kind of spiritual gathering and that is what I am interested in.

I also agree with the other poster who said that we have to be careful that we do not get into judgment about any of this at the same time.

My opinion of community has nothing to do with talking about the world after mass. For me the community aspect is the Church service or the prayer group etc.


#13

yes, this is Jesus command. so this means…( pondering) even if someone is judging you, then you judge them about judging you, you are still in effect, judging and not loving. :shrug:
its hard, right?


#14

[quote="LoveMercyGrace, post:1, topic:332921"]
Is it a sin to just go to, confession, if that day, participate in the before mass rosary,the mass, and then just to leave after mass?

is it ok to not participate with others in the social , being polite of course, but to just leave following mass?

[/quote]

Reminds me a song from "Songs for Catholic children" great DVD, btw

amazon.com/Catholic-Songs-Children-Matthew-Arnold/dp/B003TCANZS

"... I don't leave the Church 'till the priest leaves the altar, that's when Mass is through"

There is no obligation to socialize after Mass. ;)


#15

#16

YES, it is hard. Crucifixion is hard, also. Do not measure the difficulty of anything in life. Just keep the Commandments (that's hard enough). If you fall (fail) get up and try again, just as JESUS did, while on the way to Calvary. Comfort and ease are for those who care only about themselves. Faith, Hope and Charity are for those who seek eternal life. Give and Foregive.........................


#17

[quote="franklinstower, post:12, topic:332921"]
I also had the same experience in the after mass social time. I love the mass, I love the prayer and I love communion. I do not like how immediately after mass the conversation turns to gossip, or business, or sports or meaningless small talk. I never stick around after any sort of spiritual gathering unless the after conversation is about God or something spiritually related to that. That is the reason I attend any kind of spiritual gathering and that is what I am interested in.

I also agree with the other poster who said that we have to be careful that we do not get into judgment about any of this at the same time.

My opinion of community has nothing to do with talking about the world after mass. For me the community aspect is the Church service or the prayer group etc.

[/quote]

I think you might need to expand your idea of community a little bit then.

The People of God have other things they do during the week besides go to Mass. They have friends and acquaintances they want to catch up with and ask about how their kids are doing or how Tommy's enjoying baseball or if you ever finished that bathroom renovation. Normal life stuff.

You know what, this may scandalize a few overly-pius people, but I think people need to hear this. Us guys at the Seminary? We don't talk about God all the time. Now granted, we do talk about God quite often, but we also talk about classes, sports (mostly hockey), politics, family, animals, movies, (most secular) music, and a whole bunch of other "non-Holy" topics. We don't have ties on all the time (there were even a few days on the weekends, except for meals, that we were in shorts because it was hot).

We play sports in the evenings and we're not talking about today's homily, we're yelling at the other guy to pass the puck or soccer ball.

Don't get me wrong, Mass and prayer services are certainly communal, but you don't really get to know your neighbour that way. At Mass the focus is on Christ. After Mass, you can ask your neighbour if he needs help building his deck or invite the new family for a BBQ. Community building doesn't really happen in Mass.


#18

[quote="curlycool89, post:17, topic:332921"]
I think you might need to expand your idea of community a little bit then.

The People of God have other things they do during the week besides go to Mass. They have friends and acquaintances they want to catch up with and ask about how their kids are doing or how Tommy's enjoying baseball or if you ever finished that bathroom renovation. Normal life stuff.

You know what, this may scandalize a few overly-pius people, but I think people need to hear this. Us guys at the Seminary? We don't talk about God all the time. Now granted, we do talk about God quite often, but we also talk about classes, sports (mostly hockey), politics, family, animals, movies, (most secular) music, and a whole bunch of other "non-Holy" topics. We don't have ties on all the time (there were even a few days on the weekends, except for meals, that we were in shorts because it was hot).

We play sports in the evenings and we're not talking about today's homily, we're yelling at the other guy to pass the puck or soccer ball.

Don't get me wrong, Mass and prayer services are certainly communal, but you don't really get to know your neighbour that way. At Mass the focus is on Christ. After Mass, you can ask your neighbour if he needs help building his deck or invite the new family for a BBQ. Community building doesn't really happen in Mass.

[/quote]

Thank you for the reply and for giving your perspective. I want to say just a few things to clarify the point I made. If you could hear my tone of voice you would know that I am speaking out of genuine concern and goodwill and not anger.

In regards to asking about the kids I tend to agree with you, I am interested in people but I fail to see how this is not intimately linked up too our relationship with Christ. I know what you mean when you say what you say but I don't think you know what I mean. It is not just what gets said after Mass, but what doesn't get said.

I think community that is not built on God is toxic and idolatrous. I think when Christ is not really the center of what is going on then other things become the center, like business, and sports and such. I think much of this is deeply sinful and also a great distraction.

As far as you being at the seminary I am assuming that you are studying for the priesthood. If that is the case then let me offer this observation. I live in a relatively large city with many, many parishes and many priests. I also happen to have practiced contemplative prayer for the last twenty years. I made many calls to many parishes looking for a spiritual advisor ten years ago because mine had died. I was unable to find a single priest who even practiced contemplative prayer anywhere near me, not a single priest who spent serious time with God and who knew the deep ways of prayer. Now maybe the church does not feel that this is necessary for their priests and if that is the case who am I to argue against it but I cannot help to feel that the often lukewarm devotion to God found in the clergy directly affects the parish and makes them lukewarm too. I met many people from that parish who were secretly reading other religious material, secretly going to other meditation groups and such.

On that same note I will also say that many people who end up wanting deeper spiritually in the form of a deeper prayer life end up leaving the Church to go get it elsewhere, they end up in Zen centers, and they end up in yoga studios, they end up in Buddhist centers and they end up in the New Age movement. In my line of work I have met a lot of these people and they all left because they were looking for something deeper, a deeper connection to God and a community that was truly interested in getting close to God, who wanted to and they were unable to find that in their parish. And they do find it elsewhere- especially in Buddhist centers and the more serious yoga schools and less seriously in the New Age movement.

Now I believe in Christ and I believe that contemplative prayer is a more accurate way to get that deeper life but it is not being offered to them. I feel that contemplative prayer is a deep need for many people and has the potential to heal and transform many people but they are going to need a community for that and where are they going to get it? Do they matter? Do you think that the people who are leaving that Catholic faith in droves are not seeking elsewhere?

I am lucky because I found a trappist monk who was qualified to be my spiritual director but what about the rest who although craving something deeper don't even know it exists because the priest is to busy drinking beer and talking about sports (I don't mean that as an insult and you can insert other distractions from prayer here if you like)? At the very end of my RCIA training someone asked the question "this all sounds wonderful but how do I actually get spiritual, how do I get closer to God in prayer and the priest actually said "we aren't trained for that."

I know there are exceptions to this, but the exceptions are not the norm.


#19

That is true, but a God-centred community doesn’t mean that all that they do together is pray. It’s by necessity people need to eat, clean, do maintenance, and exercise.

I think what you’re doing here is setting up a false dichotomy, where it’s either Christ or other stuff. You aren’t leaving open the option that Christ comes into the other parts of your life, such as Athletes in Action in sports (yes I know it’s an Evangelical group, but it’s still putting Christ in sports).

I hope I’m just misinterpreting here.

When I hear someone talking about “Deep ways of prayer”, my brain immediately goes to Gnosticism. I’m not saying that about you, but you might want to pick a better way of explaining it.

I’m quite hurt by your accusation of “lukewarm” devotion to God. I know many priests who you would probably consider “lukewarm” who are very devoted people, but also enjoy other subjects of conversation.

Another fear of some priests is trying not to force their spirituality on the people. Priests have certain personal devotions too, and they don’t want to make it seem like everyone else has to have these devotions. There are many orthodox spiritualities to be found within Catholicism.

Priests can make the invitation for people to follow Christ, but he isn’t going to (nor does a priest have time, to be frank) to check up on every parishioner to check on what they’re reading. At some point, people have to take personal responsibility.

You have to be careful here. Contemplative prayer is indeed one type of prayer life, but that doesn’t mean that everyone needs to follow this one type of prayer. Like I said above, there are different spiritualities that one can follow within Catholicism.

Well that’s the question, isn’t it? How does one get closer to God?

I’m going to go all philosophical for a moment if you don’t mind. Largely on the philosophy of Søren Kierkegaard. I tend to agree with some of Kierkegaard’s ideas, and one of the big ones is that you can’t teach people faith. It’s not something that you can pass down from parents to children. Certainly you can teach people about faith: You can tell them who Jesus was and about the Apostles and the early Church but that’s not teaching faith, that’s history. There’s a huge, chasm-sized difference between knowing about something (or someone) and knowing someone. The first way (about something) is merely about an object, while the second is on an intimate level. Faith is something that is personally experienced and comes as a grace from God. It’s not something we can cause or give on our own.

If someone thinks they can just tell someone “this is faith and this is how you get it”, then they’re just wrong.

So how do you get closer to God in prayer? The answer is already in the question: “In prayer”. Our relationship with God is just like any other relationship, and it will be improved through communication (prayer). The only thing the priest could have really said was “Just keep praying”, which the person probably would have thought was a stupid and unhelpful answer (which is why the priest probably didn’t say it), but it’s really the only answer.

It makes me wonder though (back to the original question) why you don’t like to socialize with people? It is in those points that you get to share your faith with others and give them an example. But, faith sharing does not come right away. Something I learned from CCO (here in Canada) is the idea that first you have to establish relationships with people before you can talk about faith. Once they see you as a full person and not just as a label (“the God guy”) is when they themselves will start to become open to receiving the grace of faith from God.


#20

curlycool89

It is clear to me that you completely misunderstood my intent and what I am saying. I have sent you a pm to discuss it further.


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