Is it biblically to say Theotokos - God-bearer or Μήτηρ Θεού?


#1

No objection Jesus Christ is the new Person; God became flesh. It is a mystery. Such Person have never existed before. But Jesus Christ is not pre incarnate God of the OT. So to say that Mary is God-bearer or Μήτηρ Θεού is definetly not true because it definition does not exclude the pre incarnate Logos. Logos has the Father. The Bible doesn’t teach that Logos has the Mother. But it is correct to say that Mary is the Mother of our God. Peter the Great (2Pet 1:1) confesses Jesus Christ as our God. In Greek there is even not just definite article that appeares in many placeses and translates as our God but here is much definitely. In 2Pet 1:1 Θεοs appears with plural pronoun ημων that translates “our.” Thereby it is right to say Mary is the Mother of our God. Jesus Christ is not the half of pre incarnate Logos, He is the new person, mystery that is beyond all imaginations. He is our God and consequently Μήτηρ Θεού ημων
Please leave your commens. If some one would be glad to write dissertation using my statement, I give my permission.


#2

For anyone who believes in Sola Scriptura, it seems they would have to believe you. For Elizabeth herself says, “And how is it that the Mother of our Lord should come to me”.

It’s pretty clear.


#3

It also reflects some of the earliest teachings of the Church. I just happened to read this last night and posted it on another thread.

St. Ireneaus wrote this around 185AD. He studied under Polycarp, who studied under St. John the Apostle, who just happened to keep Mary in his home until her repose.

But Eve was disobedient for she did not obey when as yet she was a virgin… thus it was that the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. For what the virgin Eve had bound fast through unbelief, this did the virgin Mary set free through faith…

For just as the former was led astray by the word of an angel - so that she fled from God when she had transgress His word - so did the latter, by an angelic communication, receive the glad tidings that she should bear God, being obedient to His word. And if the former did disobey God, yet the latter was persuaded to be obedient to God, in order that the Virgin Mary might become the patroness of the virgin Eve.

St. Ireneaus’ writings, as you well know, reflect the teachings of the early Church quite well!


#4

By your posting I take it that you do not recognize the doctrine of the Trinity.


#5

How many Gods do you think there are?


#6

Wow, did I mis-read the original post or what? :blush:


#7

To speak of the “pre-incarnate” Logos is to speak in temporal terms. That may be useful to human beings who exist in time. But God in his divine essence does not exist in time.

So while we may say that the Son became Incarnate at a certain moment in human history, we must also remember that for God existing in eternity, all moments are one eternal now.

Not only that, but the Logos (Son) is one Person not two. Not “our God” as opposed to “the” God. The one Person has two natures, but we must not begin to think of him as two persons.


#8

Subjectively there are many gods. It depends to whom you bow. Objectively there is One God who revealed Himself in three hypostasis in the NT as God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Saying Jesus is our God it is subjectively. All who bow before Jesus as the Lord concisely or unconsciously acknowledge him as his/her personal God. As Tomas says, ‘My Lord, My God.’ Thereby for me Jesus is my God, subjectively.


#9

If I said it is mystery, it doesn’t mean that I am antitrinitarian.


#10

Its very simple:

Is Jesus Christ God?
Yes

Is Mary the Mother of Jesus Christ?
Yes

Therefore Mary is the Mother of God and therefore a God-bearer. Its actually so simple, the devil wants you to complicate it and produce some neo-Nestorian heresy where you start separating Jesus into two persons. Avoid this at all costs.


#11

To say, Its very simple: Is not true. If you want to know truth the practice and theory show that you must dig deep. Truth has never been posted in the surface. You said correct that Satan wants to complicate things you have to know so that from many trees you may not see a house. Unlike Satan, Jesus provides the explanation of the mystery of his kingdom in simple and easy ways. If you don’t see difference between God (pre incarnate) and our God that became the flesh, it is not my problem. Saying Mary is the Mother of God it is not quite true. That is why Scripture has never called Jesus - God but it calls Him the Lord, our Lord, our God. Thereby simplicity likewise “Jesus is the Lord” needs to be explained at least in a few volumes. The same Athanasian Creed, have you read this Creed? Thanks.


#12

Read John 1:1-5.


#13

Why don’t you go debate whether or not the overwhelming majority of Christians called Mary the “Mother of God” and see where that path takes you.

If Mary is not the Mother of Jesus who IS God, then you have declared that Jesus is not God. This heresy is worse than Nestorianism.

In the same way, but not exactly, why Jesus never said “I am God”, the Scriptures do not need to declare “Mary is the Mother of God”. As Christians who experience the fullness of truth in the mystical and divine spouse of Christ, the Catholic Church, we rely on the the Her, Scripture, and Tradition. The Church and Tradition have consistently referred to the Blessed Mother as “Mother of God”.

Render glory to Christ by referring to His Mother this way and He will surely be pleased.


#14

Or be like Thomas and finally “figure it out”!

“My Lord, and my God”!


#15

Jesus is not God in the sense of OT imagery. Scripture says Jesus is our God or Jesus is God-Man. Logically Jesus can not be God and God-Man, he is the new Person. All creeds confess Jesus as God-Man. If you are Catholic you should believe what Creeds teach us about the Son of God. And if you believe you should say Mary is the Mother of God-Man or Mother of our God. It is God’s breath apostolic teaching. I believe only traditions that are not contradict with formal written tradition that is NT. Creeds are the tradition I believe but they didn’t teach that Mary is Mother of God. Saying Mary is Mother of God it is nonsense. If you say Mary is the Mother of God and you believe in Trinitarian God then according your logic you should say. Mary is the Mother of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. But it is ridicule and blasphemy. Thanks.


#16

**In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2
He was in the beginning with God.
3
3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
4
through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race;
5
4 the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. **

John 1:1-4


#17

#18

This is good. But none of it clarifies why we shouldn’t call Mary Mother of God.

That is a beautiful prayer our holy Pontiff offered up, I must say. He had a wonderful love for Mary, that was only exceeded by his love for Christ. Wonderful man!

Oh, and thanks again for bringing up that prayer! I often forget it, and its nice to have it brought up from time to time!


#19

You are welcome. And good luck.


#20

Good luck?


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