Is it "lucky" to die in a state of grace


#61

I think this proposal is a modernist thought, it is impossible to reject the love of God. We sin when we receive the love of God (everyone does it), and that in return we refuse to love God with the same love that he himself loves us.
God commands us to love him, that is to say that we give him our love, he does not command us to receive his love, because it is obvious that we will always receive his love.

You did well to point out that it is relatively to God that there is no chance. But relative to the man, there is a chance.


#62

God gave us the freewill to make that choice. He does not force that on us. If we die in a state of mortal sin (our choice, not God’s) then we go immediately to Hell.


#63

If what you are saying is true, that Sarah’s salvation is based upon her having perfect contrition, then salvation and the efficacy of the Sacraments are not based on God’s power, but on Sarah’s will which is tainted by sin. In other words, she is the one making the Sacrament efficacious, not God. If salvation is based on her, then salvation is not assured.

What if the efficacy of the Sacraments such as baptism and the eucharist are not based on Sarah’s ability to have perfect contrition, but upon God’s grace through Jesus Christ? Then the Sacraments, and salvation, is 100% reliable, not based on luck, but on God’s will.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.”


#64

God can give the efficacious grace of repentance to a sinner and he is converted and goes to Heaven, he can refute this efficacious grace to another sinner and he goes to Hell. So ultimately it’s God who decides, who will go to Heaven and who will go to Hell.


#65

Wrong. Whether we die in a state of mortal sin or in a state of grace is solely our choice.


#66

God is love. He doesn’t have to command it because it makes no sense to receive from God while it is all the while giving what He is. The angels were standing in the very face of that love and rejected it. If they can, so can we. If we cannot reject the love of God, then we have zero choice in our salvation or our free will for that matter.


#67

I disagree, perhaps you are right in the case of someone who decides to commit suicide by shooting a bunch of police officers to death and losing their life in the process but it was never the intention of Sarah who died in the earthquake to die in that state of mortal sin before she could go to confession.


#68

The definition of luck is that the thing happens by chance and not as a result of your own efforts or abilities. Since we are saved by grace, and we choose to cooperate with it or not, that is not chance, so it is not luck.


#69

I used to get mad over this too

I also used to think people who live a life of sin but then fully choose to be baptized at 80 and die with no sins or punishment.

Really seems like they cheated the system and didn’t need to do all the work of a Catholic.

My solution to this is to trust God

Sounds like a cliche answer but it’s true

I trust that God never lets a person die before their time
I believe God is amazingly merciful and that the time shortly before and after death
If it be His Will he can intervene and work miracles of Mercy

in Heaven we will know why
Now it’s just Going to seem unfair
Perhaps it’s a test?


#70

She committed a mortal sin knowing that if she died in that state she would go immediately to Hell. Mortally sinning is a deliberate act and a deliberate rejection of God’s love completely freely chosen by her.


#71

Why does God save anyone who commits mortal sins? surely they should all go to Hell because they decided to turn against God occasionally?


#72

Was she also committing the sin of presumption then?


#73

She was simply intending to go to confession the next day


#74

Whether you are saved or go to Hell is not determined by the sins committed during your life. It is determined by the state of your soul at death. God doesn’t want us to sin but if we do he gives us until our dying breath to repent and ask him for forgiveness.


#75

Why should it only be the moment of death that determines where we spend eternity? It does not make sense that someone who lived a decent life could have their eternity be a miserable one because they sinned at the last breath.


#76

But God can give you an efficacious grace so that you will certainly choose to do good and go to Heaven. An example, just to illustrate. I’m free to coldly kill my child, but I’m not going to do it because-God gave me a natural love for him so that I’ll never going to make such a choice, yet, God did not remove my free will.
In the same way God can give a sinner an efficacious grace so that he will certainly make the choice to convert and go to Heaven, without destroying his free will.
It is essentially thanks to God that we will be in heaven. So even if it is true that it is because of my sin that I am going to Hell, if God had absolutely wanted me to be in Heaven, I would be infaillibly in Heaven (without destroying my free will).


#77

God infuses grace to a soul the instant they have perfect contrition. God is always necessary. God is also necessary beforehand, since anytime we do something good, it is prompted by God.

Even in non-life threatening situations, a person is put into a state of grace the instant they have perfect contrition. It isn’t delayed until the person confesses in the Sacrament.


#78

God wants everyone to go to Heaven but he gave us freewill and it is exclusively our choice if we accept the grace he gave us.


#79

Good post, I agree with it 100 %, I only like add to it.

The Council of Sens (1140) condemned the idea that free will is sufficient in itself for any good. Donez., 373.
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Council of Orange (529)
In canon 20, entitled hat Without God Man Can Do No Good. . . Denz., 193; quoting St. Prosper.

In canon 22, says, “ No one has anything of his own except lying and sin. Denz., 194; quoting St. Prosper.
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Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”
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St. Thomas teaches that all movements of will and choice must be traced to the divine will: and not to any other cause, because Gad alone is the cause of our willing and choosing. CG, 3.91.

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES, PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”
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Aquinas said, “God changes the will without forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.
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CCCS 1996-1998; Justification comes from grace (God’s free and undeserved help) and is given to us to respond to his call.

This call to eternal life is supernatural, coming TOTALLY from God’s decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will. End quote.
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John 6:44; No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

While St. Thomas says that man turns to God by his own free will, he explains that free-will can only be turn to God, when God turns it.

John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.

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For Augustine says (De Civ. Dei v, 1) that the "Divine will or power is called fate."
But the Divine will or power is not in creatures, but in God. Therefore fate is not in creatures but in God.
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The Divine will is cause of all things that happen, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii, 1 seqq.). Therefore all things are subject to fate.

The same is true for events in our lives. Relative to us they often appear to be by chance.
But relative to God, who directs everything according to his divine plan, nothing occurs by chance.
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God bless


#80

The possibility of sin is not a characteristic of free will but an imperfection of free will.
I repeat once again: with the efficacious grace, even if one is always free to sin, it is impossible that one chooses to sin, If God gives the efficacious grace of the holiness to a sinner, he will certainly make the choice of conversion, even if he was free to make the opposite choice.


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