Is it "lucky" to die in a state of grace


#81

Two things have to be acknowledged here:
1 Human free will encompasses all possibilities, including radical separation from God.
2 Grace is not unilateral. Grace is not force. God’s gift of himself can never violate free will. Through grace, God offers himself to us, and he desires our response.

To say otherwise denies the Incarnation and the cross. Neither of these have meaning or purpose if what you say is true.
In other words, God’s gift of himself is so complete that in Christ, God accepts the reality of, and the consequences for, human free will, and takes them upon himself, that our death in sin might not be the final word. He awaits our acceptance of this offer of perfect sacrificial relationship.


#82

You are wrong. God gave us grace and the freewill to reject his love or accept it. Anyone who commits a mortal sin does so deliberately (their choice, not God’s) and if they die in that state they go immediately to Hell (their choice, not God’s).

Also, and this is merely my opinion, there are probably almost no people living today who have not committed a mortal sin at some time.

I forgot to add this from the Council of Trent which says efficacious grace can be rejected.

CANON IV.-If any one saith, that man’s free will moved and excited by God, by assenting to God exciting and calling, nowise co-operates towards disposing and preparing itself for obtaining the grace of Justification; that it cannot refuse its consent, if it would, but that, as something inanimate, it does nothing whatever and is merely passive; let him be anathema.


#83

It takes cooperation with grace.


#84

Please think about.
In the military the most elite soldiers has the hardest training.
They have specially designed training ground, their training is like hell on earth, and their drill Sergeant makes sure that at the end of the training they are the most elite soldiers in the world.
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Please also think about.
If God would willed He could designed/ planned this earth like the life is in heaven, no sins, no disasters, no suffering, no hardships, yet God according to His wisdom He created this world like the training ground of the most elite soldiers and God is our everything even our “Drill Sergeant” for the reason that at the end of our training here on earth, in heaven we will be the most holy saints. – 1 Pet.2:9; You are the chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, …

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According to John Salza: Page 119.

A sufficient grace has an operating effect only (empowering the will to act),

whereas an efficacious grace has both an operating and cooperating effect (applying the will to act).
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When God wills a person to perform a salutary act (e.g., prayer, good works), He grants him the means (an efficacious grace) that infallibly produces the end (the act willed by God).

If God wills to permit a person to resist His grace, He grants him a sufficient, and not an efficacious, grace.

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The Mystery of Predestination by John Salza, Page 113.

However, the Church teaches that God infused Adam with sufficient grace to resist temptation and to perform his duties with charity.

God, however, willed to permit Adam to reject His grace and to sin. End quote.

Furthermore, God not only had the design/ plan for the event of the “fall,” but He had the design/ plan for the event of our corruption (down to the minutest degree) and God corrupted us according to His foreordained design/ plan, for the reason to convert our sins into good.

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence says.

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.
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Nor would God permit evil at all, unless He could draw good out of evil.
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Evil, therefore, ministers to God’s design (St. Gregory the Great, op. cit., VI, xxxii in “P.L.”, End quote

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When God wills to permit us an act of sin He gives us a sufficient grace (we always reject sufficient grace) to resist sin for the reason for to convert our sins into good and to make us saints.
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In the case, when God wills not to permit us an act of sin He provides us an efficacious grace and we every time infallible resist the temptation of sin.

As we see above, with the provisions of sufficient and efficacious graces God perfectly Governs/ controls the entire human race.

The Divine will is cause of all things that happen, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii, 1 seqq.). Therefore all things are subject to fate. – Which is God’s Universal Salvific Will.
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God bless


#85

We can reject the efficacious grace that God gives us, the efficacious grace not supress free will. But we will never make that choice. I can coldly kill my child , I am free to do it, but I will never make that choice as long as I have the natural love that God has given me for him. And it is not because I will never make the choice to kill my child, that you will say that God has removed my free will.

Once again: yes we are free to reject efficacious grace or to accept it, but we will never reject it


#86

That is your personal opinion and not a Church teaching.


#87

to say the opposite will also be your opinion, but my opinion is that of all the renowned theologians of the Catholic Church who are pronounced on this subject (Saint Thomas, Saint Alphonsus Ligori etc. etc.) All the theologians Catholics are unanimous : the efficacious graces are really effective and always produces the desired effect by God


#88

I would be ready to accept your opinion if you can direct me to an actual Church teaching to back up your claim. So far I have failed to find any such teaching that efficacious grace cannot be rejected/ignored.
Please show a teaching. Your references are not to Church teachings.


#89

There I would ask the help of all contributors to this forum who have already given St. Thomas Aquinas references , and other theologians references on this subject. My references are not in English, and I do not have them at hand.
By its definition efficacious grace is a grace that we will not push back. If we reject a grace it is because it was not an efficacious grace. In other words, to say that we are going to reject an efficacious grace is a contradiction.


#90

We are going round in circles. Just show me an actual Church teaching then we can end the discussion. You keep to directing me everywhere and to everyone apart from the Church.


#91

I gave you a reference: read the theological sums of Saints Thomas Aquinas!


#92

St Thomas Aquinas opinion is not a Church teaching. In fact he didn’t even believe in the Immaculate Conception.

Show me an actual Church teaching.


#93

Show me where the Church has rejected her teaching. The Church has made him a doctor of the Church, so his teaching is authoritative (without obliging us to believe it) until the magisterium rejects this officially.


#94

There is no teaching to reject. That’s why you cannot show me one. Aquinas’ writings are not Church teachings. Show me an actual Church teaching.


#95

It is up to the Church to reject false teaching. Show where the Church rejects the teaching of St. Thomas.


#96

Aquinas writings are NOT Church teachings. They are his views and opinions.
There is no teaching to reject because a teaching does not exist.
You are simply trying to distract because you cannot back up your claim with an actual Church teaching.

It’s after 9pm where I live so I am signing off now. When I come back tomorrow you should have AN ACTUAL CHURCH TEACHING or there is little point in my rejoining the thread.


#98

Surely you can see where this is a problem. Which other theologians must be taken dogmatically a priori, because the Church does not specifically reject them? There are multitudes of theologians the Church does not specifically address.

I understand what you are trying to say here: the person who is in a state of grace is disposed…gracefully.
But you are arguing against free will, and that’s not necessary to prove your point.


#99

In 1890 the assumption was a teaching of the Church?


#100

I dunno? I doubt it.
If you are that concerned about dogmatic pronouncements, you should simply provide a source from the living Magisterium.


#101

It’s called mortal sin for a reason, no? And there is a reason Jesus wanted us to know this?

Why though if we only need to depend on God’s mercy?

Was not Jesus compassionate when He warned against sin, satan and hell?


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