Is it necessary we accept these truths?


That we are all wretched, rebellious sinners. We must give our lives to God - surrender to His will. What is the point in giving us free-will if we must live the way He wants? We cannot do anything good in and of ourselves. We did not elect to be sinful, we are born with that mark. Thoughts are just as sinful as deeds. I do not think evil thoughts are good, I would not go as far as considering them sin though. The truth will always be difficult to accept. I still have difficultly to with the parable of the vineyard and the prodigal son. I could not finish the book of Job. All suffering is to keep us humble and for our well-being. Many of those saints put my life to shame. Our rewards comes in the next life. I would rather just live my life as righteous person than always worrying about sin 24/7. How come some people sin less than others or hardly ever called out for poor behavior?


The quote “Love God and do as you please” is a quote for a reason. You are to put him first, yes that part is the truth. But the miserable worry about sin stuff? Nah… not really. If you love God first you can later chip away at sin…but honestly it would fade away anyhow. God vs freewill… ironically IMO God demands the most loyalty and obedience of anyone you will encounter. The difference is He demands the least amount of stuff, and most of what he does is good for you. If you feel bogged down by sin, don’t get all worked up with sin. Focus on loving God, enjoying mass as a celebration of God. Ignore people if they are not of that same cut. Find a love for Him and sim will not be as much of an issue.

For me to sin was to turn my back on God in shame, some of that guilt… some of that pfffft this guy ain’t real if He wants me to do X. Finding a love for God changes that. One my penchant for most sins has faded, and the minimal remaining I do with apology but a different form if feeling. Not so shameful that I dare turn from God, but rather stand before Him and live as best I can.




Freewill is like owning a sportscar.

Doing good things that are God’s will - that’s the road system.

If you drive off the road, you might crash or you might be able to make your poor sportscar chug along. But you’ll drive faster and better if you get back on the roads, and that’s where all the gas stations and mechanics are.

If you stay on the roads, you can drive all kinds of places in all kinds of ways. Superhighways, country lanes, everything in between. But you have to stay on the road,
or your lovely sportscar will get trashed.


I refer you to my signature. :shrug:


For some reason I’m not seeing your signature, but I’ll check back later.


We are imperfect, yes, but we are not wretched. We can do good, mostly when we cooperate with God.

From the CCC:
Providence and secondary causes

306 God is the sovereign master of his plan. But to carry it out he also makes use of his creatures’ cooperation. This use is not a sign of weakness, but rather a token of almighty God’s greatness and goodness. For God grants his creatures not only their existence, but also the dignity of acting on their own, of being causes and principles for each other, and thus of cooperating in the accomplishment of his plan.

Good living brings rewards also in this life.

That is the right idea. Trust in God’s love and mercy. Believe that God made you well and made you good (see Psalm 8). Give thanks and praise to God.

And take a look at this recent thread:
Beautiful quote I want to share


Oops! I had previously disabled the viewing of signatures. Now I can see it.


Our choices make us who and what we are.

Behold the man! (Jesus) - he is the ultimate answer.

And we can’t bring baggage into Heaven - self-love or fear or attachment to anything but God. Thankfully, Purgatory is there for us to scrub off and give us a chance to throw away the suitcases.

Represented in these three concepts, I find the answer to everything. Which is why I referred to my signature. :shrug:


Are you asking for clarification on all of these points? Or if we, as Catholics, must believe every one of these statements?


must we believe all these?


I want to break each part and look at them a little if that is alright.

We must believe that we are all sinners and that we are in need of God’s mercy. In the same breath we must always remember our value to God though because we are worth a lot if He is willing to die for us rather then allow us to remain in our sin.

Truth. But in this surrendering of our will to God’s we become truly free and find our meaning in life. It is not a burdensome surrender but a great joy.

I am sure that there is a thread about free will and God out there on this site under the Philosophy section. The first thing is that to live the way that God wants us to live (a morally right life and fullness of life in union with God) is the way that man becomes fully alive. We, as humans, have a difficult time wrapping our brains around this because we are hurt by so many people and we cannot trust them. We take these pains into our relationship with God even though He only ever looks out for our good. There is no conflict between free will and God’s will for us because if we did not have the clouded judgement of sin we would choose what God wanted for us too so that we may become fully alive and free. With that being said free will is necessary for love and I think that is the point of having free will. We are created in His Image and His Likeness, and thus reflect the Trinity in a very special way.

I do not want to make this section super long because I want to get to your other points, but please let me know if this helps at all.

All good is a gift from God.

True. We are all born with original sin and cannot choose to not have that mark. But we have been given Baptism which cleanses us from Original Sin.

Both are bad if sinful, but they are not equally bad. What I mean by this is that thoughts can be sinful, but it seems to always be worse in deeds. For example, the difference between a man imagining to shoot someone who made him mad and actually shooting that guy for making him mad. Both would be sinful, but on degree the actual allowing anger to consume you enough to take someone’s life would be worse.

I know that Matthew 5:27-28 says that whoever looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery in his heart. It would seem that Jesus is saying that sinful thoughts are as bad as sinful actions, but I would argue that he is helping us to see where sin begins (inside ourselves) and that is how we harden our hearts to God.

I agree. It always has to do with the will. Do we pay attention to these temptations? Do we let them fester? They only become sinful when we don’t flee to God for assistance.

We do not believe this. The truth only becomes difficult to accept when we put up walls. When we think that we know more than others or do not seek the truth. We were created to understand the truth. It is only difficult because most of the time we don’t want to hear the truth. As we come to know God on a more personal relationship the truth becomes a very easy thing to accept because it is God.

Which aspects do you have difficulty with? Is it understanding the parables or seeing how it influences your life?

All suffering is for our well-being and to always remind us that we need God, but all suffering is also Redemptive because we can participate in the sufferings of Christ. Suffering purges us of disordered desires if we allow it to. That is why all the saints speak about either suffering on this earth or in purgatory. That is why we must learn to look at Christ on the cross and realize that we are able to become like Him in our suffering too.

Yes, the saints may put your life to shame but what gifts has God given you? How will and can you become a saint for Him in the here and now? The only difference between the saints and you is that they kept trying their best to respond to the grace that God had given them. We are all called to be saints. It is not just for the few but it is for all. And those saints that “put your life to shame” are the same ones interceding and cheering you on as you strive for holiness. The closer you grow to God the more and more sins and things not of God will be shed. As you said, our reward is not in this life, but in the world to come, so always focus on that.


People sin less then others because they respond to the graces God gives us in the Sacraments. This is through an intimate relationship with Him and daily working to love Him more and more. Also, it is difficult to gage how much some people sin because a lot of sin is hidden. We are all sinners so it is difficult to call out other sinners. To be able to do this and lead people to God is a delicate process. We have to really pay attention to the Holy Spirits stirring in us because calling people out on their sin doesn’t really work. I think this is because we are sinners too and we cannot just call people out on their sin without trying to help them overcome it too. To disciple them really, but we must know Jesus first.

Sorry about the length of this post. I wanted to make sure that I mentioned the great joys we have as Christians too. It is so easy to get caught up in the difficult issues that we lose sight of the joy God has given us in Jesus Christ. I hope that it helps. Let me know if you have any questions!

God Bless.


Sin is a matter of the will. The thought which is sinful is the one that is disordered and that is willfully entertained. So, we learn that we must avoid the near occassions of sin. Note that jealousy or envy begins with thinking as well as feelings, and when not rejected may lead to many different sins, such as, theft, charitable speech, vengence, lying, etc. Willfully planning a sin is a sinful action.

People’s lives are different so their temptations vary with the situations that they are born into or that they choose.

Here are some required beliefs, dogma of faith:

*]The Devil possesses a certain dominion over mankind by reason of Adam’s sin.
*]The justified person is not able for his whole life long to avoid all sins, even venial sins, without the special privilege of the grace of God.
*]God gives all the just sufficent grace (gratia proxime vel remote sufficiens) for the observation of the Divine Commandments.
*]The Human Will remains free under the influence of efficacious grace, which is not irresistable.
*]The grace by which we are justified may be lost, and is lost by every grievous sin.[/LIST]


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