Is it OK for Christians to torture, rape, and kill Muslims?


#1

Funny to see a thread here questioning if it is OK for Muslims to torture Christians. I doubt that this happens, even in Saudi Arabia as that thread implied. I tend to ask for a proof.
However, let me ask: Is it OK for Christians to kill, rape, imprison, and defile the holy scripture of Muslims? Take Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantanamo, as a start.


#2

Do a little reading on the Saudi government and what it was like in Afghanistan under the Taliban. Read about Indonesia too. Then tell me that you still doubt that there is proof.


#3

[quote=Rand Al’Thor]Do a little reading on the Saudi government and what it was like in Afghanistan under the Taliban. Read about Indonesia too. Then tell me that you still doubt that there is proof.
[/quote]

A little or much reading is NOT a proof. We tend to believe our side of the story which is influenced by our incredible media. However, you didn’t seem to answer my post question (?)


#4

i repeat my post on the other thread ;mentioned.

it is not ok for anybody to torture anybody!!!

is this how far civilization has advanced?


#5

[quote=Sw0rdD]A little or much reading is NOT a proof. We tend to believe our side of the story which is influenced by our incredible media…
[/quote]

Please tell me if I understand you correctly. Reading media accounts of alleged atrocities in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, or Indonesia does not constitute proof of said alleged atrocities because these stories are influenced by our incredible media; but we should consider alleged killings, rapes, imprisonments, and defilements of the Qu’ran in Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo, presumably by reading media accounts, and these stories are not influenced by an incredible media?


#6

[quote=Joseph Bilodeau]Please tell me if I understand you correctly. Reading media accounts of alleged atrocities in Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, or Indonesia does not constitute proof of said alleged atrocities because these stories are influenced by our incredible media; but we should consider alleged killings, rapes, imprisonments, and defilements of the Qu’ran in Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo, presumably by reading media accounts, and these stories are not influenced by an incredible media?
[/quote]

Does anyone else see a double-standard operating here?

It seems like our friend SwOrdD is doing a bunch of eye-for-an-eye-touth-for-a-touth posting on this board lately. Do a search on his threads and posts and see what I mean.

It is not moral to torture, rape, or murder anyone. Why is this not clear.

Peace


#7

SwOrd,

You may truly be as ignorant as you seem. It is hard to imagine that, but it may be so. Perhaps you are stubbornly ignorant. Perhaps you are simply a spammer. I don’t know if it is of use to discuss these matters with you. Perhaps what I will post is only a reminder to my fellow Christians. Whatever the truth may be one need only look at the following:

  1. Over the last twenty years over two million Christians and Animists have been butchered and thousands have been thrown into slavery in Sudan by Arab Muslim functionaries supported by the government in Khartoum.

  2. Christians and Jews have been enslaved and or reduced to the status of Dhimmi for centuries. Saudi Arabia is one of the worst offenders of Christians and Jews supporting terrorism all over the world. Egyptian Muslims regularly persecute Christians. Christians are attacked in Indonesia without any help. Syria backed Muslim governments in Lebanon and even assasinated leaders in that country who were sympathetic toward Chrsitians.

  3. Muslim leaders in Israel/Palestine with the complicity of Arab neighbors have consistently supported suicide bombings and the murder of innocents for years in Israel/Palestine.

  4. Armenian Christians have suffered almost endless attacks by Muslims for as long as Islam has existed.

  5. The Wahabbis who are the behind the scenes support of the House of Saud export extremist Islam around the world. They not only support the killing of Christians and Jews around the world but supoport the killing of any Muslim group that does not support them especially including the Sufis.

  6. We readily accept the fact that Christian nations during the middle ages in an attempt to hold back the Arab Muslims who had been overrunning and enslaving Christians and Jews for centuries began a series of Crusades against such incursions.

  7. We readily accept the fact that European Christians also resisted and threw out Muslims from that continent in response to Arab Muslim aggression.

  8. We also assert that there has been almost no Christian nation on earth since at least the 18th century and none that have issued “fatwas” against Muslims.

  9. We also assert that most of the conflicts in the world today have been fometted by Muslims and in particular Arab Muslims.

  10. Finally, a reading list: A. Bat Ye’or, “The Dhimmi” and “The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam”. If you don’t cry while reading these your heart is made of stone. B. Stephen Schwartz, a Muslim himself, warns against radical Islam in “The Two Faces of Islam”. C. Wolfe, ed, “Taking Back Islam” which is a series of essays by American Muslims who see the problems of Islam and offer changes.

There are areas of cooperation. I sympathize with the countless numbers of Muslims who suffer at the hands of fellow Muslims. Wahabbism is a blight upon the world. It is an indictment of all of Islam that they have nurtured this ghoulish group since the nineteenth century.

Freedom and peace are expensive commodities. It is difficult for outsiders to protect all of the Muslim and Christian and Jewish people who are persecuted by Muslims. Everytime any country tries it is roundly criticize by certain Muslim and Atheistic elements in the world. It’s a serious temptation to let every group hell bent upon destroying others to do just that but then we remember the Holocaust and Rwanda and what happened when we did not intervene.

The US is not a Christian nation. I have little doubt that the rumblings of persecution against Christians in this nation will increase into full blown persecution against us in the future even in this country. Yet, we are relatively free to worship as we choose. That’s certainly better than the persecution we would face in a majority of Muslim dominated countries in the world.

If Islam is willing to work hard to eliminated as much as possible its lunatics who want to kill and enslave the world. If Islam wil be honest about itself. If Islam will be as kind and wise as what Schwartz describes traditional and Sufi Islam to be for the most part. Then we can face together the dangers of a growing Atheism.

Islam and Christianity worked together to defeat the Beijing accords that would have foisted Planned Parenthood upon the world under the auspices of the UN and with the active support of the Clinton Administration. We can work together on other important projects.

But Islam must alter its “dar al harb” vs. “dar al Islam” approach which officially sees all people who aren’t Muslim as people against whom we are at war if Islam expects to be trusted.

Dan L


#8

Muslim militias are slaughtering Christians in Sudan. However what infidel unbelievers do is neither here or there in defining how Christians should live. Of course we should not torture or kill muslims and the moral inadequacies of their imperfect faith should not influence us.


#9

[quote=Sw0rdD]A little or much reading is NOT a proof. We tend to believe our side of the story which is influenced by our incredible media. However, you didn’t seem to answer my post question (?)
[/quote]

And THAT in a nutshell is the whole problem.


#10

[quote=Sw0rdD]Funny to see a thread here questioning if it is OK for Muslims to torture Christians. I doubt that this happens, even in Saudi Arabia as that thread implied. I tend to ask for a proof.
However, let me ask: Is it OK for Christians to kill, rape, imprison, and defile the holy scripture of Muslims? Take Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantanamo, as a start.
[/quote]

Bosnia: It was indeed wrong for Serbia to kill Muslims in Bosnia and there is evidence that ethnicity and relgion got mixed up together. However, militant Albanian Muslim rebels had been attacking Serbia and Christian villages in Bosnia and elsewhere for generations.

There is no evidence at all that Christians have attacked anyone in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Guantanamo. On the contrary Christians have been attacked and brutalized for a very long time in Iraq and Afghanistan. Guantanamo is a prison. Christians don’t run it.

Dan L


#11

[quote=Sw0rdD]A little or much reading is NOT a proof. We tend to believe our side of the story which is influenced by our incredible media. However, you didn’t seem to answer my post question (?)
[/quote]

I didn’t think I really had to answer it. Of course it’s not OK for anyone to torture of murder people! That’s something that goes without saying. But saying that I should only believe Muslim accounts of Muslims being killed by Christians and NOT believe other accounts of Christians being killed…well, that’s just ridiculous and a HUGE double standard.


#12

[quote=GregoryPalamas]Guantanamo is a prison. Christians don’t run it.
[/quote]

Good point.


#13

[quote=Sw0rdD]Is it OK for Christians to kill, rape, imprison, and defile the holy scripture of Muslims? .
[/quote]

It is not OK for anyone to murder anyone.

God bless you and may our Mother Mary watch over you and always guide you to her Son, our Lord, our Saviour, God.

Donna


#14

All over the middle east Christian converts are held in prisons, murdered, kidnaped, tortured, and put in asylums because of their faith. That is fact! Further more they are bombed sometimes by terror groups supported by Govt’s like the Iranians and the Syrians and the Saudis.

Further more is justified for Christians to torture and kill Moslems. The short answer is yes. It is right to torture or kill anyone for self defense of yourself or the innocent. In Iraq now our soldiers should have all right to torture prisoners for intelligence purposes and they should always commit themselves to their defense over our enemies. For it is better to be tried by 12 then carried home by 6.


#15

7 protestants in Saudi Arabia have been obliged to leave their faith and their practics of faith, and now no muslim say anything. It´s pathetic.


#16

[quote=Franze]7 protestants in Saudi Arabia have been obliged to leave their faith and their practics of faith, and now no muslim say anything. It´s pathetic.
[/quote]

I must have missed the news. Nevertheless, if this is true then anyone guilty of doing this has transgressed the order from the Qur’an : “There is no complusion in religion.”

peace,

deen


#17

[quote=A.Pelliccio]All over the middle east Christian converts are held in prisons, murdered, kidnaped, tortured, and put in asylums because of their faith. That is fact! Further more they are bombed sometimes by terror groups supported by Govt’s like the Iranians and the Syrians and the Saudis.

Further more is justified for Christians to torture and kill Moslems. The short answer is yes. It is right to torture or kill anyone for self defense of yourself or the innocent. In Iraq now our soldiers should have all right to torture prisoners for intelligence purposes and they should always commit themselves to their defense over our enemies. For it is better to be tried by 12 then carried home by 6.
[/quote]

Sorry, self defense is one thing, abusing prisoners is something else. Torturing prisoners who are bound and gagged is NOT self defense.

IF we ignore the Geneva convention, our enemies will to. (granted some folks ignored the convention rules in executing prisoners, we can not take the law into our own hands - even international laws)

Jesus did not ever justify torture or mayhem even in the defense of freedom. What you propose is not Christian, and not even American (at least by prior American standards.)


#18

Im sorry the detaines at GITMO still have thier heads! They do not deserve geneva convention rights because they are not an organzied army belonging to a government.

Furthermore we go out of our way to accomodate the barbarians. At gitmo tax payer fund prayer beads, the moslem book of lies, and prayer 5 times a day. If the american military was offered the angelus it would be sued by the ALCU. Also there is a meal plan for them so we dont upset their culture. On top of that there are areas marked in GITMO were americans can not walk during prayer time because it will squeak and make noise.

Are you kidding me, we have gone over the top to comfor these people. Look what they do to our people! We must fight fire with fire.

And discomfort and tought interogations are self defense. If you pick up a group with maps, explosives, and tools for digging, they could have just potentially planted an IED. At that point there is valuable intel that must be extracted from those people in a timely manner if it is to save innocent lives. Those are neccessary measures in times of war. War is not the ritz hotel, nor is it the boy scouts. It is about time we realize this. This sort of liberal thought has underminded the war effort and has costed the blood of our brothers and sisters.


#19

[quote=deen]I must have missed the news. Nevertheless, if this is true then anyone guilty of doing this has transgressed the order from the Qur’an : “There is no complusion in religion.”

peace,

deen
[/quote]

Hello Deen,
Please don`t miss these kind of news. asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=3469

In Christ,
selvaraj


#20

[quote=dennisknapp]Does anyone else see a double-standard operating here?

It seems like our friend SwOrdD is doing a bunch of eye-for-an-eye-touth-for-a-touth posting on this board lately. Do a search on his threads and posts and see what I mean.

It is not moral to torture, rape, or murder anyone. Why is this not clear.

Peace
[/quote]

It doesn’t help that - as the post after yours states - the USA is not a Christian country; neither are the countries of Western Europe. They are secularised, with Christian populations of varying sizes. To speak of a Western “crusade” against Islam (as some Muslims do) is completely unrealistic. Christians are not born - even if Muslim theory has it that all men are born Muslim - they become Christian from not having been Christian; if you don’t become one, then you aren’t one. So descent from a Christian, is not enough to make a Christian. So the descendants of Christians, can perfectly well be non-Christians.


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