When we sin, we do so with knowledge and consent of will to the act. My question is this: is it possible to commit any sin without either presuming that you can be forgiven (either via the Eucharist or confession) or, avoiding that, assuming you will not be forgiven, indicating a degree of impenitence? I’m not trying to start a debate or anything, I’m just curious, as it strikes me as being unlikely, since nobody would sin if they thought it would be irremovable (in the case of mortal sins) or not something damning (in the case of venial sins).
Often people cave into weakness, not giving “due thought” to the consequences. So I would presume it is possible to sin without adding the presumption or impenitence. People aren’t always so rational as to not sin just because they know it’s wrong deep down.
I think that people also could sin not caring about the consequences or maybe better put would be that they think God will forgive them or not and it is not up to them. An example of this could be someone who commits suicide. This person certainly does not do so without thought on the subject and yet in their action they are accepting either Gods punishment or forgiveness.
This is the only a quick off the cuff example. It does seem viable for this question and answer.
But what of one who does consider one of the two when sinning? If one occurs to the person, and they avoid that one, aren’t they implicitly sinning in the alternate? If you consider presumption, and deliberately try to not to commit that sin while committing another, aren’t you committing impenitence? And the same thing for the opposite case?
Do you not have sin that you are awarer of and struggle with yet still do. I at least sin in full knowledge of my forgiveness. To the second scenerio it at least seems possible to commit an unforgivable sin like blaspheming the holy spirit. You might think this is fairly uncommon but for a while there was a group of atheist who purposefully tried to blaspheme the HS I think a few posted on Facebook.
Someone much more mature than me will have to answer the rest of your ?'s I do not want to speculate. I would say I do not fully understand your remaining ?'s
I would point out that the sin of presumption is not just recognizing that Christ will forgive your sin if you come to him truly repentant of what you have done. It is more than that. It is a deciding to commit a sin because you will be able to go to confession afterwards. If you know that Christ will forgive you afterwards, but that knowledge in no way influences you towards sinning, then you have not committed the sin of presumption.
Wow I still am not aquatinted with the intricacies of christian speak. This reminds me of the sin boldly controversy with Luther
So what about lying to avoid a “bad” outcome, realizing that it is venial while lying and continuing since it is just venial meaning it can be forgiven? The intent of it is not because of the forgiveness option, but the continuation is influenced in part? Sorry for hounding y’all, but I tend to be a tad scrupulous and unsure of myself with these sorts things, especially when estimating the intent of an action is involved.
Well, impenitence is basically not repenting or outright refusing to repent. Presumption is one that I’ve been a bit foggy on, truth be told.
I was literally reading impenitence as impotence those are completely different words. i know I’m captain obvi right now. I know many people who say that they are christians that do things strictly because they think they will be forgiven. I have heard them say i am young i will worry about that later when I respond really:confused: they say he is going to forgive me anyway why would i follow him right now.
To be honest, I’m not sure exactly where the line lies, I brought up that distinction to help show how it would be possible to sin without also committing either the sin of presumption or impenitence. If you are scrupulous about this I would bring it up to your regular confessor (if you do not have one you should probably get one) and ask him for his advice. Personally, if it is not a habit of giving in to venial sins because they are venial I do not believe that even if presumption is involved it would be grave matter and so the presumption in such a case would also only be a venial sin, but if it turned into a way of allowing yourself to develop strong habits of sin then it could become more serious. But again, that is just my impression and if you have questions about it you should bring them to your confessor.
Here in the forums there was a good explanation of this, in a page that said that it is not sin of presumption to plan to repent even while you are sinning.
In my opinion the presumption like the others blasphemies to the Holy Spirit lies in the lack of repenance.
I think the “you sin because you can go to confession later” can be confusing, of course when we sin we know we can go to confession later, if not, we would be very scared, almost insane. the diference i think it’s that the one who comits presumption is like “it does not matter, i go confess the sin and there you go, free” and i might even say that they do not plan on repenting, just confess to cover their duty. while the one who does not commits presumption, knows that their sins can be forgiven, but still feels bad for sinning, and their repentance is true, at least to avoid Hell.
well that is what i think about this, of course it is nothing official, and im open for correction.
not sure how can they try to blaspheme the Holy Ghost, those blasphemies are pretty much to reject God’s Mercy, how? by not repenting, either by thinking its not necesary (like in presumption) or by thinking it makes no diference since you are already damned (despair) or simply by not wanting to (there could be others but i think this covers pretty much the basics).Also don’t think that if you commit one of this sins once in your life you are damned. why is it called unforgetable then? when you sin, you regret it, and seek God for forgiveness. then it is forgoten. but with this ones the thing goes as this: you sin and dont ask forgiveness, so you stay on that willingness to stay out of God’s Mercy, but if you at some point of your life realise that that way of living is incorrect and truly repent, even that sin is forgiven.
since they don’t believe in God I doubt they could fall into any of this, or at least anything more than what they might be doing already.