Is it sinful to indulge in (non-sexual) sinful fantasies?


#1

Given that Jesus said “whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart”, it’s obvious that indulging in sexual daydreams or fantasies is a sinful act.

But is that a rule specific to sexual sin, or is it a general rule that covers all sins?

Is it, for example, sinful to indulge in daydreams/fantasies about committing suicide, even though there is no intention to actually do it?

Perhaps a less morbid example would be a younger person who has fantasies about disobeying her parents. Is the act of indulging in the fantasy sinful, even though she treats her parents with the honor due to them?


#2

[quote=Timidity]Given that Jesus said “whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart”, it’s obvious that indulging in sexual daydreams or fantasies is a sinful act.

But is that a rule specific to sexual sin, or is it a general rule that covers all sins?

Is it, for example, sinful to indulge in daydreams/fantasies about committing suicide, even though there is no intention to actually do it?

Perhaps a less morbid example would be a younger person who has fantasies about disobeying her parents. Is the act of indulging in the fantasy sinful, even though she treats her parents with the honor due to them?
[/quote]

Your headline would seem to be the only answer you need. If the fantasies are sinful…


#3

[quote=otm]Your headline would seem to be the only answer you need. If the fantasies are sinful…
[/quote]

Well, I meant “fantasies about sinful activities.”


#4

[quote=Timidity]Well, I meant “fantasies about sinful activities.”
[/quote]

I believe Jesus covers it nicely with the admonishment about the lustful heart.
How about this one for a fantasy: Walking shoulder to shoulder through the country with the savior of the world. I do believe that is a fantasy that is not immoral to entertain.
How about this one: Prime rib with my wife and friends
How about this one: All my boys have come to love and understand the faith of Jesus Christ through the Catholic Church.
I believe a sin is a sin, but God is good :clapping: :dancing:


#5

To build on this, would it be a sin to listen to rap music. I’ll come out and say I oppose most of the lyrics chosen by rap artists, as well as some rock groups. However, I like the music, beats, etc. I have a sound system in my car and like to use it. Am I sinning by listening to Xzibit and Dr. Dre even though I know in my heart that they are wrong?

Here’s an example: I enjoy listening to Third Eye Blind. Their newest album makes many references to drug use and sex out of wedlock. I like the music and some of the lyrics, but not these. I still like the CD. Am I sinning by listening to it? Would I be supporting these behaviors even if I listen to the CD alone, and am firm in my conviction that the things they sing about are wrong?

Thanks,
Eamon


#6

Once the heart strays from love of the other it starts to become sinful. What is important when Jesus says, “But I say whoever looks at a woman lustfully has committed adultury in his heart.” It moved the emphasis from the act, back to the desires of the heart. It is not so much looking at the woman, it is the desire of lust.

Fantasies would not necassarily be sinful, until there is a desire to do something that takes one away from the love of another one should have, like with the capital sins: pride, avarice, envy, wrath, lust, gluttony, and sloth. These daydreams can be a good thing, if they show one that this is not a path one should go down.

If one does not want to sin, it is important to avoid the near occasians of sin. So if you know these daydreams will do that, it is a good idea to avoid them. For the most part, we tend to do the same sins over and over agian, atleast the ones we are aware of. So be gentle, if you do the same sin over again go back repent and not try to do it again. Pray pray pray, and do penance and fast too if you can.

We sin all the time, some to worse degrees than others, some we know some we aren’t aware of. It is not good to get too caught up in all of it. It is also important and maybe more so to feel your self with acts of love. Some get too caught up in the Ten Commandments, but really miss the good news. That is the Beatitudes. Of course know what not to do, but make sure you do the things you should do and you will get the true gifts.

It is important to combat the sin in your heart, because that is the place where all sin orginates itself. Try to displace sin with love for the other. Not love, like pretty flowers and good feelings like we seem to me today, but a sacrifical love, one that may even hurt, but will produce good fruits for others.

So when you desire about that prime rib, don’t forget to enjoy it with someone who is in need of a friend or maybe even a bit hungry

So when you desire about your family all coming to a love of Christ, it is not so others can be envious of what a good family you are, but that you are leading your children to heaven and the love of the one who made them.

I guess if you must listen to that rap, make sure you mourn for what they are doing wronge, and pray for those who are in those horrible situations.


#7

[quote=turboEDvo]To build on this, would it be a sin to listen to rap music.

**No, it is not **:nope:

I’ll come out and say I oppose most of the lyrics chosen by rap artists, as well as some rock groups. However, I like the music, beats, etc. I have a sound system in my car and like to use it. Am I sinning by listening to Xzibit and Dr. Dre even though I know in my heart that they are wrong?

**Yes, it is :yup: **

Here’s an example: I enjoy listening to Third Eye Blind. Their newest album makes many references to drug use and sex out of wedlock. I like the music and some of the lyrics, but not these. I still like the CD. Am I sinning by listening to it? Would I be supporting these behaviors even if I listen to the CD alone,

Yes, you would :yup:

and am firm in my conviction that the things they sing about are wrong?

There is no firm conviction without action.

Thanks,
Eamon
[/quote]

Eamon :tiphat:

Very good question.

Remember are mission statement comes straight from Jesus, “Be holy because I AM holy.” A rejection of holiness / purity is a rejection of Jesus. Why, because He is holy, HE is purity.

Following Jesus is much harder than we want to admit. Following Jesus is following perfection. **“God is light in Him there is no darkness at all.” **
When we like something like rap music, which is not evil, and allow evil into it; then we allowed darkness to overtake the light. If something is 99% light and one percent dark, then we know that it is satan’s work. There is no straddling the fence; we either serve God or man. Satan starts small and works his way up.

Who becomes a drug addict by starting with cocaine? No one, they first start with smoking and alcohol.

Who becomes a rapist without first watching inappropriate shows or listening to inappropriate music? .

We must reject some of Satan’s phrases.

What’s the big deal?
Who will notice?
Everybody is doing it.
It is only music.
Come on, just do it.
You are still nice guy.

It is hard and I fail all the time. I hope this helps.

God :blessyou:


#8

YES!

Next question?


#9

Thanks johnq

I guess I’ll just have to deal with it. The songs that aren’t good will just not be played anymore (good thing I have a collection of rap instrumentals). I’ll try my best, but I found that lately, listening to rap just reminds me why I decided to stop cussing and telling crude jokes (which has in turn drastically decreased my use of those CDs, less enjoyment).

I must admit, I’m not too happy that the new Third Eye Blind CD will be listened to in an abriged manner, I like it so much. But, when it comes down to it, I’ll take eternity over 3 minutes of musical enjoyment any day.

Eamon


#10

Yes, of course it is a sin. Sin comes from the heart. If one imagines himself murdering, stealing, committing adultury, etc., one will eventually become a murderer, a thief and an adulturer, etc.

The man who shoots the intruder dead is a man who planned to shoot and kill anyone who broke into his home. He bought his gun and bullets. And when the opportunity arose, he did exactly what he planned.

When Jesus talks about lusting in ones heart, He is talking about more than temptations or mere fantasies. He is talking about making a plan, and having the plan ready to be carried out at the first opportunity.

We should be careful of the ideas and images which we allow to enter our minds. The ideas and images we associate with soon become our friends. Eventually we become like the friends we associate with.

And we should remember that our minds belong to God. Our minds should be filled with plans for doing good, not plans for doing evil.


#11

[quote=Chris Jacobsen]Yes, of course it is a sin. Sin comes from the heart. If one imagines himself murdering, stealing, committing adultury, etc., one will eventually become a murderer, a thief and an adulturer, etc.

The man who shoots the intruder dead is a man who planned to shoot and kill anyone who broke into his home. He bought his gun and bullets. And when the opportunity arose, he did exactly what he planned.

When Jesus talks about lusting in ones heart, He is talking about more than temptations or mere fantasies. He is talking about making a plan, and having the plan ready to be carried out at the first opportunity.

We should be careful of the ideas and images which we allow to enter our minds. The ideas and images we associate with soon become our friends. Eventually we become like the friends we associate with.

And we should remember that our minds belong to God. Our minds should be filled with plans for doing good, not plans for doing evil.
[/quote]

Well said.

We are supposed to be seeking holiness–to be like Jesus, and filling our minds with junk is not a way to accomplish this.

I Thess. 5:16-18 tells us:
Rejoice always. Pray without ceasing. In all circumstances give thanks, for this is the will of God for you in Christ Jesus.

If you’re busying your mind in these ways, you can’t be thinking about those other things.

Also read Philippians 4:8-9.


#12

Yes.


#13

If one imagines himself murdering, stealing, committing adultury, etc., one will eventually become a murderer, a thief and an adulturer, etc.


Sorry… But I so disagree with this.

You are saying if you have a fantasy about being something or doing something that you will become that thing or do that thing??!!

Nonsense… you can become anything, yes… but to always be what you are thinking? no way.:nope:


#14

If one imagines himself murdering, stealing, committing adultury, etc., one will eventually become a murderer, a thief and an adulturer, etc.


I so disagree with this.
Your thoughts do not always make you who you are or what you will be or what you will do. Fantasies are just that.

If you become certain things and do certain things… you do them regardless of how much time you think about it.
But to say that if you fantasize about doing something will make you do it… please… this is nonsense …imo.:nope:


#15

[quote=marina]If one imagines himself murdering, stealing, committing adultury, etc., one will eventually become a murderer, a thief and an adulturer, etc.


Sorry… But I so disagree with this.

You are saying if you have a fantasy about being something or doing something that you will become that thing or do that thing??!!

Nonsense… you can become anything, yes… but to always be what you are thinking? no way.:nope:
[/quote]

Of course not always, but action always follows thought otherwise no action. We can control our actions, but not always our thoughts. Have fantasy about good stuff and life will be lighter unless all one does is fanticize.


#16

[quote=johnq]When we like something like rap music, which is not evil, and allow evil into it; then we allowed darkness to overtake the light. If something is 99% light and one percent dark, then we know that it is satan’s work. There is no straddling the fence; we either serve God or man. Satan starts small and works his way up.
Almost everything in this word is part light and part dark. If you reject everything with dark in it, then you are going to be rejecting a lot of light too. I think the better strategy is to allow yourself to look at everything and then try to figure out which part is the light and which part is the dark. Of course I think this takes maturity and some self-control, and I would suggest that if you do not honestly possess either, then rejection of the whole is probably the better idea.

[/quote]


#17

Just a thought, If I offered you your favorite food, say for example a cherry pie and I told you it was baked fresh today, it looks delicious and smells even better but there was one little problem it has poison in it, don’t worry though it’s only a little bit poison would you eat it? I have found this to be useful in selecting music, movies, reading and guiding my thoughts as well. I admit I had to change many of my over rationalized self serving view points on many things but now I have a much more clear vision of what God wants for me in this life, I’m much less blind to my own sins and failings as well as years of destructive behavior.


#18

Yes, it is sinful… it is called lust. This is one of the Cardnal sins, and therefore is very bad. Also, then you may never find truly what love is. This is very bad if you want to get into any form of relationship. Spending love on those things really won’t give you pleasure, but rather just take the spot of the love you should be saving for your spouse in marraige. Just because you aren’t having sex, doesn’t mean that fantasises are good. They are a way of testing the soul to see if it is strong enough to say no and wait for the true love found in marraige. This has been proven to work the best. Good luck…Imagining how much you love someone isn’t bad, just lusting about her is!

God Bless–JMJ
Laura :slight_smile:


#19

Who becomes a rapist without first watching inappropriate shows or listening to inappropriate music?

I’m not so sure I agree with this quote. I figure people who commit sexual assaults usually have some huge issues that are more apt to be abuse related and perhaps are undeveloped and devoid of many common moral teachings that a lot of us take for granted. There are many scenarios in ones life that can lead to violent crime, drugs, alcohol, poverty, and over exposure to other people like gang members etc. You realy need to be a mess in your mind to violate another human being sexualy.

I like rock music and I can tell what is ok and what is not. I don’t buy the idea that music will force my behavior. I also like classical music which can be just as intense as some heavy metal style music yet this is commonly associated with ‘class’ and goodness. It all comes down to individual discernment. If music makes you sin then find other music. If it doesn’t then feel free to enjoy it. Perhaps it’s more important for one to learn to filter all influence with the Lords help and learn to discern things spiritually. I’ve often felt that broad sweeping generalizations can be a door to legalism.

-D


#20

[quote=Darrel]I’m not so sure I agree with this quote. I figure people who commit sexual assaults usually have some huge issues that are more apt to be abuse related and perhaps are undeveloped and devoid of many common moral teachings that a lot of us take for granted. There are many scenarios in ones life that can lead to violent crime, drugs, alcohol, poverty, and over exposure to other people like gang members etc. You realy need to be a mess in your mind to violate another human being sexualy.-D
[/quote]

Hi Darrel, :tiphat:

It appears like we are on common ground. I agree with your quote above, and would have used many of the same examples if I kept going. My main point was we normally start small and work our way up.

Cain is a prime example. In Genesis we know Cain’s sin was the murder of Abel, but do we know what lead to the mortal sin?

Genesis 4:
2 Next she bore his brother Abel. Abel became a keeper of flocks, and Cain a tiller of the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought an offering to the LORD from the fruit of the soil, 4 while Abel, for his part, brought one of the best firstlings of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not. Cain greatly resented this and was crestfallen. 6 So the LORD said to Cain: "Why are you so resentful and crestfallen? 7 If you do well, you can hold up your head; but if not, sin is a demon lurking at the door: his urge is toward you, yet you can be his master." 8 Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let us go out in the field.” When they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him. 9 Then the LORD asked Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?” He answered, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?” 10 The LORD then said: "What have you done! Listen: your brother’s blood cries out to me from the soil!

Cain’s sin list - pride, anger, resentment, lying, stealing, lack of faith, lack of trust, jealousy, disobedience . . . :banghead:

Once he started sinning, it kept growing until he finally murdered Abel. Even worse was when Cain’s refusal to repent when God gave him the chance, which resulted a harsher punishment.

Keep up the discerning! :yup:

I agree with this statement, “You realy need to be a mess in your mind to violate another human being sexualy.” I would like to add either phyically or spiritually.

God :blessyou:


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