Is it true?


#1

a minute ago I’ve read a post from a different forums saying that…


Ismael was the first son of Abraham. And Ismael was Mohammed’s (-Moslem prophet) ancestor (from his line). And that he was Abraham son’s through Hagar–> Abraham-Sarah’s helper. God allowed Abraham to sleep with Hagar since Sarah can not bear a child. Sarah was depressed/lonely for she can not bear a child and because God love Sarah, He made a miracle and Abraham-Sarah had a son Isaac, who were Mary’s, wife of Jospeh, ancestor.

In the Koran, it was Ismael who offered by Abraham to God to test His faith on Him. While in the Bible, it was Isaac who was offered to God.


posting here on CAF is one of my research, much appreciated if you could give your points. factual or points of view…

SHALOM! :wink:


#2

It’s true that Ishmael was born before Isaac, the son of Abraham and Hagar. I believe it is also true that the Koran says Ishmael was the one offered by Abraham to God, but I’m not sure about that.
All the stuff about Mary’s geneology I leave for your own texts to answer.


#3

Yes its true. Thats whats Muslims believe. But actually teh Quran doesnt state that it was Ishmael. Its the Tradition of the prophet Muhammed who says that in more than one authenticated Tradition.

For certain groups of Christians it is very important that it becomes Isac for reasons that link to Jesus. For Jews ( as far as i know) and Muslims its a matter of History no more no less.

Muslims believe that if it was Isac who was to be sacrificed he wouldnt be less honorable than Ishmael in his obedience. Both were praised in the Quran and both are revered as prophets.

The arabs continued the tradition of Sacrifice on certain time of year in memory of their father Ishmael bieng tested to be the sacrifice. Ever since and till this day , muslims celebrate the obedience fo Abraham and Ishmael to God by sacrificing at the season of Pilgrimage every year .

hope this clarifies

thanks for your question,

salam


#4

In a sense, Abraham offered both sons for sacrifice. Using the story as set forth in the Torah, he turns Ishmael out in the desert, to what would likely be death. And he later offers Isaac up to God. Abraham doesn’t exactly win “Father of the Year”.

There is no record of Abraham speaking either with his wife, Sarah, or his son Isaac, after the binding of Isaac story. THe event seems to have fractured the family.


#5

Basically Muhammed wanted to find a way to connect with the real religions of Judaism and Christianity. So he altered the story to suit his own fantasies and agenda. He did that a lot with Biblical stories. Then turned around and claimed the Bible was altered. That takes some hubris. The OT story is the correct one. The quran is the false story.


#6

We will see on Judgement day .

salam


#7

I think in the end, God won’t care how you got there. As long as you got there.


#8

Abraham did sleep with Hagar, but there is no suggestion that God allowed it. Abraham and Sarah probably had a lack of trust in God.

Anyway, here goes my analysis of the scriptures…

The Jewish patriarch Abram and Sarai were childless (Gen 15:2), but God promised Abram that they would have a son whose descendants would become a great nation (Gen 15:5). Unfortunately, the years went by and Sarai failed to fall pregnant. In ancient cultures without modern science, it was believed to be the woman’s fault and her humiliation if she couldn’t produce a child. So, in order to fulfill God’s promise, she proposed to Abram that he have a child by her Egyptian servant, Hagar, and they agreed (Gen 16:2). (Such is surrogacy, 2000 B.C. style…)

When Hagar became pregnant, she became proud and despised Sarai (Gen 16:4). Then Sarai treated Hagar so cruelly she ran away (Gen 16:6). Hagar was so distressed that God comforted her and told her to go back, and that her son will be named Ishmael and have many descendants, but He warned her that her son would be wild and against everyone, and everyone will be against him (Gen 16:7-12). Abram, who was a wealthy man (Gen 12:5), accepted Hagar again, and he thought Ishmael was the promised son (Gen 16:15), so he raised Ishmael as a prince; the heir apparent. But when Ishmael was a teenager, God appeared to Abram to reveal His covenant (Gen 17:4). God changed Abram’s and Sarai’s name to Abraham and Sarah (Gen 17:5,15), and would now give them the promised son (Gen 17:16) and his name will be Isaac (Gen 17:19). Abraham asked if Ishmael could be the heir (Gen 17:18), but this was not God’s plan. However, God told Abraham that He will make Ishmael the father of twelve princes and make great nations of those descendants (Gen 17:20). And so, Isaac would become the father of the Israelites (Gen 25:19, 35:10-11), and Ishmael would become the father of the Arabs (Gen 25:12-16,18; Ga 4:25).

When Isaac was born, Sarah ordered for Hagar and Ishmael to be sent away because she wanted the full inheritance to go to Isaac (Gen 21:10). What a crushing blow to Ishmael. And so the Arab-Israeli conflicts begin (Gen 25:18); a family feud, fuelled by jealousy - a situation borne of a lack in the promises of God.


#9

Hi,

Isnt ironic that the Jews and the Muslims are cousins:eek: I guess the old saying goes we cant choose our own families.:wink: Just another hatfield and Mccoys:eek:


#10

Wouldn’t they be brothers?


#11

Hi, yes but I meant all the descendents.:thumbsup: I meant Israel and Mideast.


#12

Well, just to throw a spanner in the works, it the Christians who can truly claim to be descendants of Abraham.

St Paul tells us that the real descendents of Abraham are those who believe in Jesus Christ (read Galations chapter 3).

Jesus came so that there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles, between slaves and free men, between men and women; we are all one in union with Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are the descendants of Abraham and will receive what God has promised.


#13

So true:D


#14

LOL whatever you do, don’t get the Muslims fired up about St. Paul!! :smiley:


#15

Then turned around and claimed the Bible was altered.

That is also the criticism of most of anti-catholicism including Dan Brown!!

In fact, if you read their sacred book you will find their apologetics in criticism of a lot of bible teaching, quite absurd. For example their claim that Christ was not crucified, compare the story with the passages in all four canonical gospels and it is laughable

Do not be fooled by the false prophets. Trust only in Christ and His Church :thumbsup:


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