How does someone know they want to marry someone if they haven’t dated? When I have a child and they grow up, I don’t want my child to come to me saying they want to marry someone they barely know. I agree that you shouldn’t seriously date someone you don’t see marrying, but going to dinner a few times to find out isn’t wrong. Heck, thinking that this is the man/woman of your dreams and a few months later realizing that they aren’t isn’t wrong. I would rather my child have dated in high school and college and find out what type of person they were looking for, instead of having puppy love and ended up divorced because they didn’t figure out who they are and what they want.
You have good points But, like aforementioned, culture plays into it too
Look, I don’t know if it’s biblical or not but:
-People are different. What leads one to sin may be a perfectly healthy behavior for others. E.g., some can drink alcohol because they are able to control that behavior and keep it moderated. For others, a single drink can set them off on a binge and so they should avoid drinking completely.
-The Church does not lay out a specific plan for how one must or must not date or court another. We have good general guidance for avoiding sin and discerning marriage, but there’s no precise plan that must be followed in exacting detail. There’s not a Bishop following us around critiquing the length or warmness of our embraces. There’s no one to say with precise definition the specific intimate details we should or shouldn’t share with a love interest at any given point in a relationship.
I know that many will disagree with me and this is very conservative,
I’m a little confused. First you suggest that, “the idea that we can choose what we consider moral behavior or otherwise is not a biblical concept and it contrary to the teachings of the Church,” then you go on to explain what you do/don’t consider moral behavior without reference to the Bible or Church teachings. Can you explain this apparent inconsistency?
I do not believe to people should even date (or have otherwise physical interaction) if they do not intend to be married.
How can you intend to marry someone that you have never dated nor had any physical interaction with?
My catholic understanding from France:
Before the wedding, between the boyfriend and the girlfriend (dating very serious, the situation before fiancaille), or between the fiancé and the fiancée, by nature, by essence and by principle:
the fact of kissing the cheeks of the other is not sinful;
the fact of kissing the forehead of the other is not sinful;
the fact of kissing the ears of the other is not sinful;
the fact of kissing the hands of the other is not sinful;
the fact of kissing the arms of the other is not sinful;
the fact of kissing the eyes of the other is not sinful;
the fact of kissing the neck of the other is not sinful;
the fact of kissing the shoulders of the other is not sinful;
the fact of kissing the back of the other is not sinful;
the fact of kissing the chin of the other is not sinful;
the fact of kissing the lips of mouth of the other is not sinful;
the fact of kissing the mouth of the other is not sinful;
the fact of practicing the french kiss is not sinful [The French kiss (an open mouth kiss, the normal French kiss, the standard French kiss) is not sinful];
the fact of practicing the passionated French kiss (an open mouth kiss, very passionated) can be sinful under some special conditions;
the fact of holding the waist of the other is not sinful;
the fact of holding hands of the other is not sinful;
the fact of seeing the legs of the other is not sinful;
the fact of seeing the knees of the other is not sinful;
the fact of seeing the other in swimsuit is not sinful;
the fact of putting the hand on the thigh (between the knee and the hip, in the middle of the hip and the knee) of the other as a sign of tenderness, when we sit down, is not sinful.
the fact of touching the thigh of the other with the hands is not sinful;
the fact of dancing together is not sinful: the Rock and Roll, the Valse, the Slow…etc.
Here, only the wrong intention can be sinful and /or only the wrong effects (the breaking of the red line). That is the question, how to define the red line???
Materially speaking, the fact of going further, as in a married couple. In the facts, the fact of trying the first steps of marital act (sexed and sexual touchings, per se, for keeping going, for arousing and for exciting), i mean the touchings of the sexual intimate parts and of the breasts: it is wrong.
Intentionally speaking, for arousing and for exciting the body of the other; the difference between a simple expression of love and of tenderness, even before marriage, and the will of going further for preparing the union of bodies.
By nature, the acts of my list are not sinful, even before marriage, in those two situations (serious dating, or persons in fiançaille). Only the intentions of each person and the circumstances can render them sinful.The near occasions of sin is very relative because it is function of each person and in function of types of acts, of intentions and of circumstances.
Wow! Thanks for all the replies! fpt, thanks for the detailed explanation So it’s different for each person hmm…
I honestly just say follow your conscience. It will let you know what’s right and wrong, especially if you’re a devoted Catholic like you seem to be. There is no definite right or wrong in terms of physical intimacy before marriage (besides the obvious like “no sex”). Trust me, if you get the point where you think you’re going too far, your brain (or at least mine) starts to freak out a little. :bigyikes:
Just don’t push any discomfort into the back of your mind, because that’s where trouble starts. Pay attention to that little voice in your head and you should be okay. I have faith in you!
Aww Thank you! It means a lot. I have faith in you too
I want to recommend a good video about chastity.
It is one of the best videos I’ve watched in my life and it’s called Romance without Regrets.
Jason and Crystalina Evert explain the right kind of relationship and how to be chaste.
Just a suggestion I hope this helps.
Keep “making out” “open mouth kissing” so called “french kissing” “petting” and “sex” — for marriage.
Chaste kisses and hand holding can be good prior to marriage-- one must judge (near occasions etc) and if one is say a teen --ones parents may have additional things to say that one must follow.
(but honestly I would focus on being friends --until one is older and not get into any exclusive dating)
In Jesus of Nazareth is true life
Make sure you read the messages from world youth day with Pope Benedict XVI
Opps -this is an OLD thread.
Thank you for the references! I agree with what you say. It seems that those acts of intimacy really put one in a near occasion for sin Wouldn’t want that. The first reference you provided had a good point:
Of course, you know that when we do not walk beside Christ our guide, we get lost on other paths, like the path of our blind and selfish impulses, or the path of flattering but self-serving suggestions, deceiving and fickle, which leave emptiness and frustration in their wake.
Again, thank you!
And sin per se as well…
Sorry I did not realize this is an old thread…after 15,732 posts…I am surprised I do not start responding to myself!
It’s all right I appreciate any and all responses. Thanks for taking the time to post in this thread!