[quote="Shin, post:16, topic:218461"]
We learn that kissing before you're married being a sin in more than one way. There are several ways one can find this out.
We can learn this through the teachings of the Church.. we can learn this through natural law.. There are many ways.
All lust is a mortal sin, with the conditions applying for it. All of what are called 'near occasions of mortal sin' are obligatory to avoid, and not avoiding near occasions of sin that are obligatory to avoid becomes sinful in and of itself.
More souls go to Hell for sins of the flesh than any other sins, this we are told on more than one occasion, so it's a problem, and a widespread excused problem that people are not taking seriously because they want to excuse past behavior, I often tend to think.
Directly, stirring up the passions involved in the marital act, outside of marriage, is a mortal sin. This is unchanging Church teaching. A young couple especially, taking chances -- a near occasion of sin, often mortal sins of negligence in restraint.
This is one way we know it is a sin.
The natural law clearly makes the case against it as well however, clearly written in the heart -- as anyone can understand that if you passionately kiss someone you are not married to and later marry someone else, that person would be upset watching what you were doing previously.
In other words, if the kiss is something different than you'd give your mother, father, sister or brother.. if it's something that would trouble your husband or wife seeing you give to someone else.. it's a problem.. though if you're shameless that too is a problem, and that happens nowadays quickly as the natural law is obscured by habitual sin.
That's the natural law speaking there above, so if you search your heart and pray you should be able to find it.
People should be more careful. They want to be, but quickly they go too far and are upset about it, and don't realize the restraint they shoudl've had because of temptation -- and then, they rewrite history so it's OK so they can have special memories instead of something else.
People being out of wedlock are forbidden to stir up any passion meant for marital relations -- with the person you will later marry or not -- and supposed to be guarding the heart for one person after marriage, not giving it away before as most do, again and again.
It's an obscured by corruption issue, rather like how lust can happen within marriage and not just outside of it.
That society is morally corrupt right now about this -- it isn't always and there've been plenty of times when everyone knew this and people preserved themselves for their spouse and for the Lord.
'A lustful look is less than a touch, a caress or a kiss. But according to Matthew 5:28, "Whosoever shall look on a woman to lust after her hath already committed adultery with her in his heart." Much more therefore are lustful kisses and other like things mortal sins. . . Wherefore since fornication is a mortal sin, and much more so the other kinds of lust, it follows that in such like sins not only consent to the act but also consent to the pleasure is a mortal sin.'
St. Thomas Aquinas, Doctor of the Church
'. . . every time someone with sufficient reflection and full consent of the will delights in carnal or sensual pleasure associated with to whom he is not married he commits a mortal sin. This is not only true with kisses but also with respect to other touches performed for carnal pleasure. The reason is that any delight taken in carnal pleasure, that is to say any delight taken in stirring up the appetites which surround the creative power, is a movement towards the martial act.'
St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori, Doctor of the Church
'All sexual pleasure outside marriage, alone or with others, that is directly willed or desired, intentionally procured or permitted, is a MORTAL SIN. Therefore, it is grievously sinful in the unmarried to think, say or do anything with the intention of arousing even the smallest degree of sensual pleasure.'
Fr. L.G. Lovasik
You are right to caution against carelessness and right to argue for our duty to avoid the near occasion of sin. Since the prevailing fault is so far in the other direction, I almost hesitate to reply.
Having said that: This argues that kissing a woman with whom marriage is a possibility before you actually marry her is a sin, per se. This is not true. I would argue that it is possible for a couple to allow themselves chaste-but-decidedly-hetersexual kisses. Two standards must be met (and this is my opinion). One is that the act does not elicit lust, in and of itself. By that, I meant the objectification for the other person, not the existence of legitimate sexual desire. (That is: I wish I were married to you now rather than I wish I could do X Y or Z with you now.) The other is that the act does not put the couple at greater risk to falling. If they submit to being chaperoned, then I would argue that is taken care of.
But no: If it isn't a kiss you'd let her father watch you give her, don't do it.
My point is that you have raised the bar for avoiding the near occasion to such a height that if the standard were applied to other capital sins, we could hardly leave the house.....or the confessional.