Is kissing sexual?


#1

What is your opinion? Is kissing sexual? By kissing, I mean touching of the lips for a few seconds between a man and a woman, who are romantically involved. No tongue, though. Also, for Catholics where pre-marital sex is not allowed, do you only kiss if you're in love with the other person? Or if you kiss someone, do you assume that it's a serious relationship, and you expect the other person to have strong feelings for you?

Thank you.


#2

This thread will surely open up a can of worms. There will be a wide range of opinions. Some will be more conservative and others more liberal.

My advice is two fold. One, avoid the near occasion of sin. If kissing leads to more, you need to stop. Two, dont do anything you will regret. If you kiss a random guy or boyfriend in an intimate way, would you ever regret giving him that kind of affection and bonding if the relationship were to fail. Part of dating is protecting yourself for your spouse. Dont form any bonds that prevent you from thinking rationally and from moving on if the dating didnt work out.


#3

Hi Bad Turkey:

I think intent is what matters here. I have been married to my spouse for well on two decades now, and I kiss her in that fashion often, but it does not have to be “sexual”, but we’re certainly romantically involved…I think it all depends what the reason for the kiss is. There’s are 5 verses in the New Testament that refer to Christian brothers/sisters greeting each other with a “holy kiss” (Romans 16:16, I Corinthians 16:20 and II Corinthians 13:12, I Peter 5:14, and I Thessalonians 5:26, and this may be a superset of what I’m talking about here; while some have argued that it means just kissing on the cheek, others (like Augustine, Sermon 227) says the lips have to meet that of your brother and sister, ie contact each other, as you’ve said above. The key is the intent; in the case of my spouse (and the Christian brethren) it’s a form of affection, agapic love, if you like, rather than eros. Another example might be two spouses living in a Josephite Marriage.

Now regarding the unmarried, I can conceive of instances where such “holy kisses” are possible. But you’ve said you’re thinking they are already romantically involved, so in a case such as that, I would expect that this would lead to sexual desire, and either a near occasion of sin, or something worse. So unless you are one of those very few who are capable of kissing your romantic partner without feeling such desire, and the feeling is mutual on their part, I should think this would be morally illicit.

Jacques


#4

Thank you for the responses. I'm just looking for a straightforward yes-or-no answer. I did want to get a Catholic perspective, though, but the replies so far still sound confusing to me.


#5

[quote="BadTurkey, post:4, topic:224422"]
Thank you for the responses. I'm just looking for a straightforward yes-or-no answer. I did want to get a Catholic perspective, though, but the replies so far still sound confusing to me.

[/quote]

Ok. Answer:

Does kissing arouse you? Does it make you 'want more'? Does it encourage your sexual desire? Does it make it harder to be chaste? Would you kiss like that and be ashamed if God was looking [he always is!]? What is it that you feel when you kiss?

I am sure you can see what answers you give to the above questions can help answer your own question.


#6

I was thinking in more general terms, not specifically about me.


#7

I think what the other posters are getting at is that it depends on the individuals involved and the manner in which they are kissing.

Greeting a family member or friend with a peck on the cheek is a bit different than playing tonsil hockey with someone.

By your definition touching of the lips for a few seconds between a man and a woman, who are romantically involved. No tongue], I would conclude that the action is not inherently sexual in nature (though one many argue that it is sexual based on ones intent).

For your second question do you only kiss if you’re in love with the other person?], I would say that the answer would be “yes” based on your previous definition. I do not go around hooking up with random friends/acquaintances.

The answer to your final question depends on what stage the relationship is at and the circumstances surrounding the act.


#8

This thread's been getting a lot of male input. Can we get a female point of view?


#9

[FONT=Arial]
BadTurkey, are you a man or a woman or a person? Keep in mind that you appear asexual on CAF. I craft my answers and my understanding accordingly. It seems like this works in REAL life and God must have intended it to be so, because the differences in men and women are so easily perceived.

[FONT=Arial]I am a 48yo male. On CAF we are androgynous, which is often confusing to me.[/FONT]

"Sexual" is not bad or sinful. You are "sexual" by versus of being born male or female. “Sexual” never has been and never will be a sin. You are alluding so something else...probably arousal, attraction or lust. Only lust is sinful, but the others may lead to lust. So if you want a simple answer, you are out of luck.[/FONT]


#10

Nevermind, by your responses, now I know you are female but your age still is critical to know how to address your question.

Maybe you should state whether you want responses from females or from males. You will get more hard hitting brutally honest responses from males that will rock your reality. From women you will likely get kinder responses.

Do you want your world rocked or do you want to be appeased and comforted?


#11

[quote="BadTurkey, post:1, topic:224422"]
What is your opinion? Is kissing sexual? By kissing, I mean touching of the lips for a few seconds between a man and a woman, who are romantically involved. No tongue, though. Also, for Catholics where pre-marital sex is not allowed, do you only kiss if you're in love with the other person? Or if you kiss someone, do you assume that it's a serious relationship, and you expect the other person to have strong feelings for you?

Thank you.

[/quote]

Who are you kissing? Your grandpa? Your brother? Your boyfriend? A date? Some friend at a cast party who catches you under the mistletoe in order to give you bad time? Some fellow you happened to run into on Time's Square just after midnight on New Year's?

If it isn't a relative, assume it to be sexual....in other words, that it reflects a heterosexual desire, and not merely platonic friendship. You don't know that, but assume that it could mean that. You may not assume that a kiss is intended as a prelude to a serious relationship. The world is full of men, including Catholic men, who are happy to steal a kiss if they get the chance, and who do not have even a remote interest in anything that could be called a "serious relationship". Others, although well-intentioned and wanting to be decent in every way, do not have it in them to resist temptation. (Actually, it goes for women, too. We are all but weak flesh, alas.)

IOW, if you agree to kiss a fellow who may or may not be interested in you, you are opening doors with no guarantees whatsoever. The unfortunate truth is that the same goes for just about everything else that heterosexual couples might be tempted to do. If you don't get a promise, you don't have a promise. Accept that knowledge, and proceed accordingly....that is, with great care.

[quote="C_S_P_B, post:10, topic:224422"]
Nevermind, by your responses, now I know you are female but your age still is critical to know how to address your question.

Maybe you should state whether you want responses from females or from males. You will get more hard hitting brutally honest responses from males that will rock your reality. From women you will likely get kinder responses.

Do you want your world rocked or do you want to be appeased and comforted?

[/quote]

No, age isn't critical. There is no fool like an old fool, and that truism is not gender-specific.

I don't know where you got the idea that the OP's possible intention was either a) comfort and appeasement or b) brutal truth. As far as you know, she hasn't kissed anyone yet. Some of us are wise enough to look before leaping, after all.

Besides, she's talking about kissing. That some kisses might be regretable in retrospect hardly makes the distress involved earth-shaking. Live and learn....and if you get away having only lost a kiss, you've dodged a bullet.


#12

[quote="BadTurkey, post:1, topic:224422"]
What is your opinion? Is kissing sexual? By kissing, I mean touching of the lips for a few seconds between a man and a woman, who are romantically involved. No tongue, though.

*YES, this is a sexual kiss. It can be very sexual if the couple is trying to remain chaste but is tempted into physical contact such as kissing. Ask a couple who cannot have sexual relations but can kiss, for whatever reason. The lips are a very sensitive part of our bodies.
*

Also, for Catholics where pre-marital sex is not allowed, do you only kiss if you're in love with the other person?

I*t's never a good idea to start kissing people that you have no feelings for. Either they develop feelings for you or you are playing with fire by touching lips.*

Or if you kiss someone, do you assume that it's a serious relationship, and you expect the other person to have strong feelings for you?

*Pretty much, yes.
*

Thank you.

[/quote]


#13

[quote="BadTurkey, post:6, topic:224422"]
I was thinking in more general terms, not specifically about me.

[/quote]

Generally: An expression of affection rooted in sexual attraction, unless known to be otherwise.

If you're wise, you don't assume you know what a kiss means. A kiss isn't a promise. It isn't not a promise. It doesn't necessarily mean anything. It doesn't necessarily mean nothing. You simply cannot know what a kiss means from first principles alone. Rather, you learn the truth about the relationship involved via other means of communication, and then you let your kissing reflect the truth you know, rather than foolishly imagining that a kiss will establish the meaning or the truth.

I hope that helps. What you know ought to define the kissing you do. It doesn't work the other way around.


#14

Meh, I’m a dude.


#15

[FONT=Arial]OK, sorry for the wrong assumption.

A kiss is a kiss, but there are many kinds of kisses. How a man leads up to the kiss is what matters. It is about escalation, intention and anticipation. Soft or hard is less material. Arousal is not the same as the sin of lust. Saying more would get me blasted because what is said and what is wanted are often two different things.

[FONT=Arial]
Been there, done that, and will go there again! I draw my lines in a different place. You are going to get precisely the kind of woman you screen for. If you aspire to have a passionate woman then screen accordingly, if not then screen accordingly.[/FONT][/FONT]


#16

You cannot know what it means subjectively for each of the persons involved but generally, in our civilisation, the default meaning would be either romantic or sexual, except the limited circumstances where it happens between relatives or very close friends (the latter obviously only in certain environments).

But it is not a milestone or a guarantee and should not be rushed to as if it were. On the other hand, it does normally carry an implicit or implied promise and it is not fair to play with that implied content and then hide behind the premise that it’s not necessary, fully evident, crystal clear or otherwise full-proof. That it’s very contextual, circumstantial, conditional and otherwise thoroughly flawed in terms of reliability doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

The instance I have the biggest problem with (and almost any kind of instance I have a problem) is when there’s a contradiction between the cause or reason why the kiss happens and the reasoning used afterwards (e.g. it’s great because of all the hidden meanings => do it, excuse: it doesn’t carry any solid promise…; it’s so out of the ordinary and all-round exciting thing => do it, excuse: it’s thoroughly casual and nothing any two strangers couldn’t do if they liked).

Otherwise I can’t really put my hand on a concrete norm but I have a problem with the idea that it’s fine to engage in multiple concurrent romantic relationships or in romantic gesture without at least an unspoken relationship. I’m not saying this to scandalise anybody, you must basically form your own conclusions in accordance with your conscience.


#17

Then realize that a kiss can be taken as a promise, can be taken as having meaning you did not intend, and yet that her kissing you can also mean nothing to her. She can know your meaning or not, can agree with it or not, and yet she might still return the kiss. You would do well to try to be very sure you always know how every kiss is meant and how it is going to be taken. Don’t leave that to chance, a lot of feelings get deeply hurt that way. Know, though, that there is a limit to what you can know of feelings, because feelings are fickle. People try to put them on or put them off, in order to protect (or manipulate) themselves and/or others.

Learn what Shakespeare teaches in the words of Juliet:
"Dost thou love me? I know thou wilt say ‘Ay’;
And I will take thy word. Yet, if thou swear’st,
Thou mayst prove false. At lovers’ perjuries,
They say Jove laughs.
O gentle Romeo,
If thou dost love, pronounce it faithfully.
Or if thou thinkest I am too quickly won,
I’ll frown, and be perverse, and say thee nay,
So thou wilt woo; but else, not for the world.
In truth, fair Montague, I am too fond,
And therefore thou mayst think my haviour light;
But trust me, gentleman, I’ll prove more true
Than those that have more cunning to be strange
."
Romeo and Juliet, Act II, Scene II

Even if someone says that her kisses mean such and so, or that they don’t, she may be lying…to both you and herself. She may know she lies, and she may not. Venture forth with this in mind: You are on ground that has no maps, no GPS! If you feel that way, you’ve got it right.


#18

[quote="EasterJoy, post:17, topic:224422"]
Then realize that a kiss can be taken as a promise, can be taken as having meaning you did not intend, and yet that her kissing you can also mean nothing to her. She can know your meaning or not, can agree with it or not, and yet she might still return the kiss. You would do well to try to be very sure you always know how every kiss is meant and how it is going to be taken. Don't leave that to chance, a lot of feelings get deeply hurt that way. Know, though, that there is a limit to what you can know of feelings, because feelings are fickle. People try to put them on or put them off, in order to protect (or manipulate) themselves and/or others.

Learn what Shakespeare teaches in the words of Juliet:
"Dost thou love me? I know thou wilt say ‘Ay’;
And I will take thy word. Yet, if thou swear'st,
Thou mayst prove false. **At lovers’ perjuries,
They say Jove laughs.
** O gentle Romeo,
If thou dost love, pronounce it faithfully.
Or if thou thinkest I am too quickly won,
I'll frown, and be perverse, and say thee nay,
So thou wilt woo; but else, not for the world.
In truth, fair Montague, I am too fond,
And therefore thou mayst think my haviour light;
But trust me, gentleman, I'll prove more true
Than those that have more cunning to be strange."
Romeo and Juliet, Act II, Scene II

Even if someone says that her kisses mean such and so, or that they don't, she may be lying....to both you and herself. She may know she lies, and she may not. Venture forth with this in mind: You are on ground that has no maps, no GPS! If you feel that way, you've got it right.

[/quote]

I'm lost.

When I talk to someone secular, the answer is always a simple yes or no, with more saying yes than no. The replies I've been getting here - from a Catholic point of view - seems to be so much more complicated, and I can't even get a single simple yes or no answer from anyone. Not sure why that is.


#19

Yes, kissing is sexual.

Is that bad? Is that a sin? When did sexual become a sin? If you think it is, then you are not asking a clear question and have some erroneous beliefs. Sexuality is NOT a sin, lust is, but you didn’t ask that. So what good does a simple answer serve to a muddled question?

Just do what you want and be a man of integrity. Make your own decisions. If you want to work for Big Oil then do it. Who cares what others think of you! If you want to kiss a girl, then do it. Are you going to live your life pretending? Do you want to be respected for who you are?

Who are you? Women have a 6th sense for uncertain men that are chameleons and revolve their lives around being someone that they THINK others will like. Stop trying to figure out how to be a “nice guy” and just be a REAL man. Are you going to spend your life appeasing others or are you going to look inside yourself and just act with integrity?

You seem to be missing something essential, which maybe Dr. Philip Mango can address.
How To Be A Man Of God

[size=2]For the record, I don’t care if I hurt your FEELINGS. It is not my job to coddle you*.* [/size]

Life is actually much easier if you just act with integrity rather than trying to figure out how others should think you should act in order to get them to like you. Men of integrity that act with certainty are often liked and usually respected, but they don't care. Yes, it is a paradox.


#20

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